The first reading for the public v. private debate will be in April and the second reading in May. The Century league will be moving the issue forward with the intentions of having a public and private playoff beginning in the fall 2008.

LAUSD even with their "budget problems" have opened upwads of 15v high schools and one of the newest "Miguel Contreras Learning Complex in downtown LA has Stat of the Art everything - 2 gyms a beautiful pool, field turf, etc. Been to Diamond Ranch lately? Most of the newer schools ([articularly in te Inland Empire) are pretty impressive.

Until the last few years Mater Deis facilities were awful - and look what they've done. They built that all with bottom of the barrel facilities and until recently, the amat facilities were among the worst in the valley. An aluminum wight room under wooden football bleachers built in the '60s by boosters and a tiny one-sided gym with the original floor, coaches offices and a team room that were on a stage shared with the drama dept. and used to be their dressing rooms.

It's not about facilities at all - it's about commitment to building a quality program. People not buildings. When a school focuses on construction instead of instruction and that piece falters - so does the program.

We've seen that

Public vs Private???

Nowhere in this debate has anyone discussed *training facilities*.

Have you ever driven by Oaks Christian and seen their facilities? It would put some NCAA division-I schools to shame.

Can anyone name ANY public school with training facilities like that?

************************************************
LA TIMES(Eric Sondheimer 12-13-08) "Public schools have seen top coaches hired away by private schools offering big raises. Major building projects at private schools have resulted in college-type athletic facilities at Santa Ana Mater Dei, Westlake Village Oaks Christian and San Juan Capistrano JSerra."
***********************************************

Meanwhile on the other side -- State of California is facing a 15 billion dollar budget deficit, does anyone believe public schools will close this gap anytime soon??

Just an observation...

~Football Jones

I thought you were joking. I just checked talked to my uncle who is a '79 graduate. This is not at all shocking, I mean Morrison hasn't done anything there. They have a couple of nice league titles since he's arrived but there is no chance for CIF with that program. He should be commended for an outstanding effort at a school who pretends to put emphasis on football but rather talks and gives no action. I guess looking back you could say he wasn't given a lot to work with, but then again he only made it to round 2 last year with a team that was loaded. I wish him the best, hopefully he rebounds quickly. God bless his family and the Spartans new search.

I can't believe this. It happened...Coach Scott Morrison of Damien High School was fired today. The rumors had been swirling for months, but we all thought this to be bull. I am so angry I am thinking of pulling my son. Damien just crapped in their hands.

"Clarify"

Injuries are a part of the game. However, I don't truly believe that, in this example, that a team would go down a notch just because of a single event like an injury, because even with that, a good team still dosn't go 3-7. In other words it is'nt the injuries that created the problem, but the coaching.

However, this is an intersting point that you bring up here because, assuming that this concept were in place already. Would the new coach at Amat still be looked upon as a "savior" given the fact that his last two teams had played so dismaly ? And in this example, would the powers that be, at Amat, still hire this man, had his program been taken down a notch or two because of that record ?

It is really simple here actualy. The way it works in most of these leagues is to only move the poorest performaing team down, and to reward a good team with an oportunity to play at a higher level the following year. So in this sinario, if a team truly had a bad year, they could make up for it and move back up the following year.

Anyway, it's a moot point because it will never happen. Still, when the last poster said that Crespi and ND want to move down to a lower division, how would a move like that affect Amat ? Would they also have to go down with them due to the fact that they play in the same league ?

Some of those Covina Vikings jr all American kids
that want to go this particular highschool don't live in the district, not that it seems to matter any more but its ashame they don't stay in their district and make their home highschool better.
When I was a kid we were proud to play for our local highschool, didn't matter that St.Paul just to the east, or El Rancho just to the west of us were better programs at the time, we still wanted to play for our neighborhood highschool. This Idea about taking the whole team to one highschool
sounds like its coming from a bunch of the parents
trying to live their dreams through their kids, why don't we teach our kids to be loyal to our community instead of this me first mentality that
we're teaching them, am I off base here?

Jcaz, clarify a good year and a bad year by wins and losses. And what happens when a hs has a bad year but is loaded with young stud and the only reason they had a bad year was due to injuries. Why would you drop them if they're gonna be good the next year.

"In the Works"

I am amazed that ND and Crespi want out of the Pac5. I realize of course that being in this highly competitive league puts you up there with the big boys and makes it tough to win a championship, but if anyone can run and gun with LB Poly and OL, then its those two.

I would be very very surprised if that happened. As for the rest of it, ya, I can see Alemany wanting to go to D1.

As for the other schools in that list. I think that they should all go down a division until they get a little better.

Case in point. Last year and this year, Loyola plays De La Salle, a true D1 school if there ever was one. The result of that game last year (and perhaps this one) was not unexpected. In fact, just look at St Paul. They did very well because they played in a lower division where they showed that they could be successful. That is not to say that even at Amat, where they pride themselves in going against the best, that there is not a question as to whether or not they should be playing at a lower level given the state of the program the past few years.

I believe the CIF should look at this issue a bit differently. I think that the CIF should perhaps consider a different format that emulates the one that is used in many professional leagues.

In this format, if a team does well one year it gets rewarded to the next level the following year. Conversely, if a team does poorly, then it goes down a notch until it is able to once again qualify for the higher division.

In this way, there is a balanced equity, in that the playoff's are biased on the "quality of a team" rather than the enrolment of the school.

Of course in high school, you have to consider the restrictions of having "Leagues" and how to get around all of that, but I for one would like to see just three divisions in football and all the teams grouped in to their respective divisions based on performance. In this way, we don’t get to see the crazy situation where Oaks Christian is playing in a championship game against an overmatched school.

"In the Works"

I am amazed that ND and Crespi want out of the Pac5. I realize of course that being in this highly competitive league puts you up there with the big boys and makes it tough to win a championship, but if anyone can run and gun with LB Poly and OL, then its those two.

I would be very very surprised if that happened. As for the rest of it, ya, I can see Alemany wanting to go to D1.

As for the other schools in that list. I think that they should all go down a division until they get a little better.

Case in point. Last year and this year, Loyola plays De La Salle, a true D1 school if there ever was one. The result of that game last year (and perhaps this one) was not unexpected. In fact, just look at St Paul. They did very well because they played in a lower division where they showed that they could be successful. That is not to say that even at Amat, where they pride themselves in going against the best, that there is not a question as to whether or not they should be playing at a lower level given the state of the program the past few years.

I believe the CIF should look at this issue a bit differently. I think that the CIF should perhaps consider a different format that emulates the one that is used in many professional leagues.

In this format, if a team does well one year it gets rewarded to the next level the following year. Conversely, if a team does poorly, then it goes down a notch until it is able to once again qualify for the higher division.

In this way, there is a balanced equity, in that the playoff's are biased on the "quality of a team" rather than the enrolment of the school.

Of course in high school, you have to consider the restrictions of having "Leagues" and how to get around all of that, but I for one would like to see just three divisions in football and all the teams grouped in to their respective divisions based on performance. In this way, we don’t get to see the crazy situation where Oaks Christian is playing in a championship game against an overmatched school.

Fred,

Wondering what your snide-blocker software found objectionable about my last post.

Some rendition of this league can work if SJB leaves the Trinity. Amat, Damien, Loyola, SJB, and St Paul would be a fine 5 team league. Adding Alemany just adds to the travel and provides no additional scheduling or playoff benefits for anyone involved. Plus, Damien could put the "kabash" on the whole thing with another threatened lawsuit, as they did the last time CIF tried to cycle them with the private schools.

The Serra league could execute some "cross-league scheduling" and have inter-league matchups during their bye week (like the Miramonte and San Antonio). It also would not effect the number of playoff spots in the Trinity (a 5 team league still gets 3 spots) but would ADD one to the Serra (due to going from a 4 team league with 2 spots to a 5 team league with 3 spots). The additional automatic bid would eliminate the "At-Large" playoff bid in the Pac-5 which would make life easier on the CIF office (avoiding controversial selections) but the other 3 leagues would lose an opportunity for that extra one on years when they might think that they deserve it.

Possible new PAC-5 football division for 2010.

1.St. John Bosco (wants out of Trinity League)
2.Damien (if forced out of public school league will join up w/Catholic school association)
3.Alemany (wants to be DI)
4.Amat (wants to be DI, ND and Crespi want out of PAC 5)
5.St. Paul (on the fence, will be competitive w/ these schools they play them regularly)
6.Loyola (wants to stay DI, will not follow ND and Crespi to D3.

I think that if the vote is for the private schools and public schools to separate for playoffs, the private schools should just completely leave the CIF and not be a part of it at all. The 60% that CIF receives for playoffs can come from all those sell outs that public schools have!

I think that if the vote is for the private schools and public schools to separate for playoffs, the private schools should just completely leave the CIF and not be a part of it at all. The 60% that CIF receives for playoffs can come from all those sell outs that public schools have!

I'm not 100% certain of the answer, so this might be a good topic to throw out there.

Here goes: This decade - San Gabriel Valley - any school - CIF Championships - any and all sports. Let's hear the totals.

That opens it up to your badminton or tiddlywinks championships if you want to count those too.

Go for it!

Anyone?... Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?
http://gotwavs.com/0058536645/WAVS/Movies/Ferris_Buelers_Day_Off/bueller.wav

Mr. Don,

My challenge still stands. Glendora Varsity foot ball team has approx. 70 players. 65 are from Glendora. The remaining 5 are from neighboring communities which border Glendora.

Lets examine BA now. Can some Bold person please give us a breakdown of where the Varsity football team players call home?

If 95% of BA's football team came from La Puente, I say that there was no unfair advantage over public schools. You might as well examine Damien as well. Just because BA or Damien has a poor season or two, it's surely not because of their unfair advantage over public schools. They have a better opportunity to perform well. If they can't take advantage of their advantage...well something isn't working!

Dear Mr. Lets get real,

If you were to examine the home addresses for prospective students at schools such as South Hills, Claremont, Charter Oak, Glendora, and Bonita you would find any number of kids who are looking to attend even though they live in other Districts and other cities. It should also be noted that these children are not always athletes as some actually are looking for better/different academic advantages or even a safer campus atmosphere.

The clamor to attend your favorite school may not be as great but it exists and probably for reasons surprising to you: Chorale, Dance, a special art or music teacher, or even a Jaime Escalante type is a draw for a properly motivated student.

What some people might consider shocking is that athletic success does not always translate to a place on campus if the kid in question is not up to the other standards of the individual school. The schools can and do turn kids away every year, (even starters on the football, basketball, or baseball teams), if they fail academically or behaviorally.

It's real all right. It's real competitive.

Joe Amat

Joe, Joe, Joe... Please! "open enrollment...no school has boundries...liberal transfer rules, etc...", GIVE ME A BREAK!

True, every SO OFTEN a public school may get sneaky enough to enroll one or two athletes who fall outside the boundry. But, that is the exception, not the RULE. Players that attend BA are choice recruitments from all over. They technically should be the best of the best. Unfortantely poor coaching, etc is the ultimate killer of a decent program. Tuition NEVER stops a stud from playing where he wants to play. There is always a way.

Listen, all you have to do to put a end to all this recruitment bantor and Private vs Public advantage is just look at BA enrollment from outside La Puente. Compare this to ANY public school's enrollment for studnets living outside of the community. END OF STORY. When a public school is limited to athletes (at least 98%)which live in the community, the advantage goes to the private school.

If the private school has a dismal season. Don't blame it on the lack of recruiting. Time to change the coaching!

Good points all JA, between us we will someday get through to the unwashed masses.

Nah. Now that I think about it, it's like that guy at work who requires an explanation of the difference between imply and infer.

Two times a year since 1991.

What people continue to miss by selectively choosing to live in the past that THEY choose to remember - is that, unlike the "old days", now with *Open Enrollment* in California and the liberal 8th grade school selection and 9th grade transfer rule - ***No School has any boundaries*** We all are now on an equal playing field. The school that offers the best option for students academically and athletically will be the ones who endure. And, believe it or not, private schools must be like Avis and "Try Harder!"

Believe it or don't - tuition is a huge hurdle. Everyone has their "stories" about hearing of these massive scholarships offered to athletes. Myths, Urban legends, and old wives tales! It makes a dad's kid sound pretty important when he can say over a pitcher after a JAA game that he's been "offered a scholarship". I've been on the other end of a couple of those claims when I KNOW them to be untrue. An old coach once told me, "don't believe everything you hear and only half of what you see." The school has no formal financial aid program while there is some "financial aid" thru the Diocese. Usually these are not full scholarships but tuition reduction. As many have said here - you can go to CO,LA and SH for free and play for Ferrar, Bogan or Gano - good options compared to amat recently. Hopefully that will change - I think that it will.

Private schools have no automatic 1,000 student middle school feeders across the street and their natural feeders are private elementary/middle schools spread across the region with 30-60 students in each 8th grade class. There is no natural Pop Warner/JAA program practicing at their fields that feed directly to the school or city NJB basketball program in their gym every weekend. You can go to a dozen schools in the valley and see this every weekend. Yet it is an "outrage" when someone suggests that the Dukes help the Amat baseball program.

This is not so much to cry the whoas of privat education or look for excuses as much to say to any Lancer that reads this that it is simply NOT good enough to go around shouting that "Mighty Are The Men That Wear the Blue and Gold":, "Amat Will Shine", "On Blue" or "Steadfast Loyal and True" and assume that that is automatically true and it is a given right to be successful or the best. It is not to be assumed that you can just open the doors, plug in any coach, toss out the balls and the athletes will come and outperform everyone else.

No, you must be like Avis, and "Try Harder!"

!!!,
thank you. That is exactly my point. These kids are in your backyard, share the same parking lot and portable classrooms but that doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean that they are going to stay at your school. You've gotta do something to keep them. So the complaint the SD Fan that
"the school they are playing is a K - 12 school with Junior High soccer so these girls have probably been playing together for more than 4 years. Is that fair?"
is no GUARANTEE that those players stay at the school in high school either.

I don't think they should seperate them. You have teams like Corona Centenial, Mission Viejo and many other IE and OC public schools that have proven they can compete. IMO it begins in the classroom, Growing up you hear kids dominating the youth ranks. Then when they enter high school they either don't make grades or they are sideline by other distractions. For example at the youth level, Covina Vikings JR. Midget team has won league titles 5 years in a row, 5 out of the last 6 years they had made it to the finals and won 3 of them. The plan was to take the entire team to the same high school. We just found out that the starting QB, RB and 4 other starting players might not pass the 8th grade. I know there are a few people that will argue any point inlcuding this one. At the end of the day, it is what it is. The public schools should step up not step down.

On the flip side, can you imagine what will happen to teams like Bosco (Rosemead), Cantwell and Cathedral against teams like Mater Dei or Servite? It's like Bassett playing Amat.

to all fans and players:
I am big SGV high school sports fan. i my self played football and wrestled for 4 years in high school. this is a good thing and bad thing for high school sports. that is about the only thing that everyone will come to terms on. but lets all open our eyes. no matter what, each year there are teams in each sport that are just going to be good. private or public. and yes each year there is going to be a school that puts the best they have ever had out there and sooner or later play the big dogs that are good year in and year out. but is that not what the playoffs are all about?? the best playing the best? at any level of sports it is that way. a San dimas of Covina can win a game VS. a Pac-5 School. with the right game plan and hard work. even if you have some of the more gifted kids at your school. they still have to work just as hard to win. and work harder than you did to win in the playoffs. the way things are right now works for Me. and i know that it does not work for everyone. but really if you make easier for the small school. lets just had out rings to everyone right now. playing the best of the best is what its all about. no matter what school. if you are that good your team will find a way to win out. and thats the truth of it all!

the fact of the matter is not whether people should separate private and public schools.

its whether they should separate scrub areas like the SGV from other legit areas out there.

SGV athletics is a joke and a waste of tax payer dollars.

What's the matter with schools granting scholarships? Those scholarships will only be attractive and persuade students to enroll if the school offering them is more appealing than the local public school. I don't agree with scrutinizing giving scholarships to high school athletes in-need either. I suppose it would be more fair if other students needing financial aid who also devote 15++ hours per week half the year and an additional 10+ hours per week to school activities the rest of the year would also receive tuition subsidies.

The main point, though, is that if the private schools were not doing a good job, then their scholarships and recruiting would not be effective.

Dan,
That is a great idea. Separating individual teams by strength would be great. Doesn't CIF do stuff like that for sports other than football? Although, I'm not a fan of Amat playing Division 5 baseball, but that's a different issue. I'm sure dividing teams up like that may be a logistical nightmare though.

Separately, Amat football has more than proven itself against the local public schools. Amat recently has struggled among the best public schools (Santa Clarita) but has been successful against the Baseline. Amat does not need to drop into a less competitive pool, it just needs to do the stuff that successful D-1 private schools are expected to do. Hopefully the new coach gets the support he needs so Amat can bring back some D-1 respect to the SGV.

Brave4life, He turned it down. I wouldn't want to live in Utah either.

Brave4life, He turned it down. I wouldn't want to live in Utah either.

Use your own name little man. Signed Agent 007

Use your own name little man. Signed Agent 007

What was the format for the old 4AAAA/Big Five conference? I thought you had rotating schools/leagues as you had to win a championship (including lower levels) so you had a constant churning of teams of a higher caliber. Los Altos played Paso Robles in the second round in the late 70's as the Ventura teams moved in for some period. Point is the public and privates each moved up to the highest level so you did not have this problem of San Dimas playing a team "slumming" in a lower division.

Word on the street...Heggins is leaving Baldwin Park for a college job. Who are the front runners for the BP job???

Frank Corona is a Jackass!!!!!!!!

Posted by: SD Fan at February 13, 2008 12:43 PM

“Yesterday my soccer player came home and told me that they have heard the team they have to play in the first round "recruits" their players. At the very least, the school they are playing is a K - 12 school with Junior High soccer so these girls have probably been playing together for more than 4 years. Is that fair?”

Everyone knows that girls come from all over Sun Valley to just to play Kommie Kickball. I for one, am amazed that Village Christian only has about 600 kids enrolled considering it's status as a hot bed of soccer talent. They probably have many players recruited from Eastern Europe and Central America just for their girls soccer team.

It is absolutely unfair that you should be asked to play this powerhouse and I say DON'T GO! Send a message to the master manipulators in Los Alamitos “YOU CAN'T PUSH THE SAINTS AROUND ANYMORE! DON'T EVEN GET ON THE BUS!

Oh wait. They are coming to you, huh?

Well, just do what you think is best. (Remember, nice juice boxes and treats for after the game.)

SD fan,
How is that any different than the kids at Lone Hill Middle School, the direct feeder school, that basically shares a campus with San Dimas? All of those kids have played basketball together since the 6th grade when they walk across the parking lot to San Dimas. Or San Dimas Youth Basketball that plays in the gym every weekend? Or your starting sophomore guard, who lives in Charter Oaks area and whose older bro went to CO?

Yet San Dimas' basketball team was 7-19. Quit whining public schools. You have the same opportunities as anybody. Players still have to play.

Yesterday my soccer player came home and told me that they have heard the team they have to play in the first round "recruits" their players. At the very least, the school they are playing is a K - 12 school with Junior High soccer so these girls have probably been playing together for more than 4 years. Is that fair?

Joe amat

do you save all those things? or copy and paste them? lol

Fred,

Do you have any new info on Damien and Morrison? You know how the rumor mill goes crazy around here. I was just wondering if there was any truth to the rumors? I heard from Steve Yeager that Morrison is on a one and done contract for this upcoming season and he has to replace his entire staff? Sounded a little far fetched to me and I considered the source sine Steve is known Morrison hater. Anyhow just curious. How about that Sainz kid...breakout season?

Damien is private, but good point!

Don - you're the man! Leno could have used you during the writers strike.

I wrote this under another topic, so if you read it there - sorry for the repeat.

Everyone talks about Amat "living in the past"
Lets talk about the present then-like the last five years. Maybe you can answer these 5 questions:
Guess what was the last SGV school to a CIF Boys Basketball Championship?
How about Girls Basketball?
Baseball?
Dual-Meet Wrestling?
How's your school been doing?

That's right, we're concerned with the football program here, and we'll see if the recent upgrade does what we think that it will. But the suggestion to move into a public school league will never happen or be accepted and the last time we had a series of games against public schools (2006 school year) we played Damien, Glendora, and Charter Oak. Three pretty good SGV programs? Need I repeat the record and composite score of those games. Sorry: 3-0/96-16.

That sure wouldn't be any fun for the Lancers in league play year in and year out.

Its the other way around for Amat, they should get out of the Private schools and start playing Public schools like a league with South Hills and West Covina and Diamond Ranch and Charter Oak and Los Altos. Amat aint going to do anything AGAIN this year all they have is some REAL GOOD BLOGGERS that try to convice everyone on the blogg that they are still good but we know the truth there not.....

These ongoing claims of Parochial School “recruiting” always brings to mind an image of those van-loads of Priests, Brothers, and Nuns stealthily venturing out under cover of darkness to scour the local athletic fields and playing courts in search of the next little superstar stud for their private school. (Many people don't know it, but the Catholic Clergy wears black solely to remain undetected when on these recruiting missions.)

Only through the ongoing efforts of bloggers like we find here are these shameful acts brought to the attention of the public at large.

Thank you for this great public service.

Great idea Fred!

It's finally time Damien gets out of the Sierra League & plays top competition. This will force then to bring there "A" game each & every week. Facing teams like Amat, St. Paul, Loyola will do that.

Fred,

The problem with private schools is the way they recruit. By offering scholarships to athletes who families probably couldn't afford to go to that private school. The problem here, private schools disguise these scholarships as academic scholarships. They offer tuition breaks to particular athletic kids they want to keep. What we need is better regulation of the private schools.

If they remove these academic scholarships/tuition reductions for athletes attending these schools. I bet we can fix this issue.Stiff penalties and player disqualifications would nip this in the bud quickly.

open mind. mark my words. he will continue the losing he had at poly. You are a blind amat fan. typical fools

bad idea, the guy has been apart of 5 CIF Titles. Three as HC and two as Assistant. How is he a bad coach. The good out ways the bad. Open your eyes.

Under the current system, entire leagues enter into playoff divisions. To bump up one school that might be dominant in its division might not be equitable for the other teams in its league. JW North may be able to compete up, but could La Sierra. Oaks Christian can compete, but is it right to move up Grace Brethren.

CIF would have to move teams up and down individually as it used to (and will in the future) for basketball.

Bad Idea,
The problem isn't so much private vs public but its more that cif should put D1 caliber teams all in D1, teams like Hart, St.Bonnie,
Oaks Christian, Canyon Country,Corona Centennial,
J.W. North and others of similar caliber should be at the D1, or pac 5 level, This should be updated every 2 or 3 years to allow for the up and coming teams or else to drop a team if their program goes south.

Fred...Los Altos 3, Damien 1; Los Altos won the series. LB Poly are the Pac-5 champs; Budgets?? Public wins that one. Ever played the game?? Do you know the sound a helmet makes when you run? Fred, you are just so hard up for Amat that it's sad.

I really do think this is a bad Idea, then you are just seperating good divisions apart. I do not think it will get passed. It may be somewhat unfair, but that just makes it more interesting. I doubt that CIF will passed this. If you look at football for example, look at the PAC-5 and the power division that it is. Only division that has most of there playoffs televised. It took a lot to build that division. For what? Why would you want to separate the LB Poly's and the Mater Dei's. Mission Viejo's and the Norte Dame's? makes no sense whatsoever.

I think that Jim Stauntons comment, ""I wonder if there aren't other ways to temper the resentment out there." and that he has been put in the middle of the debate, insisting the section was founded under the principles of being a "public-private organization." Is a very telling part of the article. They will come up with some have baked "compromise" to have schools move up or down based on past history that will prove to be a failing experiment and flounder for years trying to repair what they tried to fix. There is no real way to keep everybody happy and stay out of court - and that scares him to death.

Much goes into the process and, like almost anything with CIF, if you follow the money you will find the answer. Not so very long ago Santa Margarita, Mater Dei and Servite were in public school leagues, much like Damien. The reason that this was done was the threat of legal action(pretty sure that it was Santa Margarita) as a result of student/athletes missing class time due to early dismissals for long trips. Damien insiders can vouch that that is also the reason that they are able to remain in the Sierra League, as opposed to entering the Parochial releaguing circle. Damien has been allowed to remain in the "Mt. SAC Area" because a parent actually filed a lawsuit. If I remember right it was a parent in a "minor sport" like water polo. Maybe a Damien parent can help with that one.

The other perspective that I want to throw out there is how "special" it is to compete against people from outside of your area. Our bus trips to compete in league games against someone from a community far away made the experience a little different than traveling across town and playing against some guy who was also on your pony league team. It was one of the lures that made the experience seem a little more "big-time" and less recreational. While an all local playoff bracket would be intriguing to watch how it played out, the road trips to Oaks or Morro Bay or even just inland to Redlands are things that the kids will remember for years...far more than whether they felt that the bracket was "fair".
Be careful what we wish for...

This is just another example of - "I don't want to compete where I am at because I am not gauanteed to be successful - so put me in a league/division where I can win" Total BS - little league AYSO metality - Everyone plays - everyone wins.

Hey if you aren't competetive - get better - don't blame it on the opposition.

Does Damien have an unfair advantage in their league - if so I sure don't see it - When was the last time Damien won a CIF Championship in Football???? Anyone Bueler ???? Damn that's a competitive advantage.

If you don't like your situation Mr Administrator/AD/Coach - don't blame your oppoenet or look for scape goats - "Oh the private schools are too good - we can't beat them" Buuckle up - get off your lazy ass and get to work to MAKE YOURSELF BETTER!!!

When Edison in the 80's - Poly/Mission Vieljo in the 90's - Los Altos, South Hills and Charter Oak were/are some of the dominant player's - along with Bishop Amat - Servite - Mater Dei - Loyola no called for the split - what is it today that makes it a new scenario we should split them up and play seperately?

You feel sorry for San Dimas because they had to play Oaks Christian? WHo would have had them play? Notre Dame - Long Beach Poly - Mission Vielo - Hart - Birmingham - JW North - Citrus Hill - Kaiser - who - who should they play - wait I know - they should play whoever they can beat right? Make sure they can play so they can win

Excuse me - I am about to throw up............

Fred

You are really clueless and you shine a spotlight on it when you emphatically state

"Certainly, private school's have a huge advantage over public schools in terms of budgets, and boundaries in which to choose players from, which fundamentally makes it an unfair playing field for public schools"

1: Can you backup your statement in terms of budget - have you ever seen a budget at either of the institution "types" or are you just spouting off from the open spicket you call your mouth as usual.

2. Boundries in which to chose players from. Wait where does an entrance exam and acceptance into said private school and often times very large tuitions formulate into your "fundamentally makes it an unfair playing field for public schools" Enrollment opportunities abound at public schools - not living in a boundry rarely, if ever will preclude a kid from going to another school - CIF encourages this with their new "shop around until 10 days into your sophomore year rule"

You are simply rehashing old tired and much publicized arguements that simply are not FACT. Isn't a 'reporter' supposed to report FACTS? Just give us the FACTS Fred - keep your jaded opinion and hash bash to yourself.

Close to if not in SGV Prvate league:
Amat
Damien
St. Paul
St. Francis
La Salle, Cantwell or Bosco Tech(Rosemead)
---------------------------------------
Public School:
Walnut
Diamond Bar
Diamond Ranch
Nogales
Rowland

Public School:
Charter Oak
So. Hills
West Covina
Northview
Gladstone

Public School:
Wilson
Los Altos
California High
La Serna
SEM

Fred,

You mentioned that Damien has a huge advantage in terms of athletic budget. Do you have any idea what their budget is compared to other schools in their league, or are you just making up stuff to support your opinion?

Fred,
Would it have been OK for San Dimas to have played Oak Park? Another public school with "neighborhood kids" Oak Park beat Oaks Christian in a league game. The argument for Damien to get better in order to compete on a regular basis with the Amat's and Loyolas of the world (while I might agree) can be just as easily used for a San Dimas or any other public school. Should Glendora or Charter Oak now be forced to play Mission Viejo or Hart because they are both public schools of equal size?
I guess they just need to get better.

CIF "fixed" the Keppel vs Mater Dei problem with their new *competitive equity* playoff system. So now you have schools like Kaiser in Fontana with their 3,000 students reaching a CIF Basketball Final against Ontario Christian and their 470 students. Thats equitable? That's faaarrrr worse than an Amat vs Monrovia baseball final - and that was an outrage to everyone! Fortunately they realized they "fixed" it and now it needs repaired. CIF will adjust that shortly I'm sure.

With open enrollment all of the rules are now the same. It is much EASIER to transfer into a public school because the transfer does not have to deal with any admission standards or overcome the obstacle of tuition.

The real problem is that there are a few anomalies out there that scew the playoffs. You really only have about 10-12 fottball teams that can compete at the highest level - and they are all in the same leagues. So we should just have two rounds of league, the first for seeding and the second for playoffs? I don't think that everyone really realizes the vast difference of "private schools. We list the 350 public schools and 218 private schools but I bet that well over 1/2 of those private schools have enrollments under 500 students

You have your Mater Deis' and Orange Lutherans', but you also have your St Monicas and St Genevieves. No one is crying for them. Or for Daniel Murphys who has to close, like Pius X and Pater Nostre before them. It is just not that easy for a private school just to open their doors and "recruit" students - much less athletes.

Just to give everyone an idea, these are the private schools and this years record. Not as many "factories" as one might think.

Trinity League
Servite 3-1 7-2
Orange Lutheran 3-1 8-1
Mater Dei 3-1 8-1
Santa Margarita 2-2 5-4
St John Bosco 1-3 3-6
JSerra 0-4 2-7

Serra League
Crespi 3-0 8-2
Notre Dame/Sherman Oaks 2-1 8-2
Bishop Amat 1-2 3-7
Loyola 0-3 4-6

Mission League
Alemany 2-1 7-3
St Paul 2-1 6-4
Chaminade 1-2 6-4
St Francis 1-2 4-6

Camino Real League
La Salle 4-0 5-5
Cantwell Sacred Heart 3-1 7-3
Mary Star of the Sea 2-2 5-5
Verbum Dei 1-3 2-8
St Monica 0-4 0-10

Del Rey League
Serra 5-0 9-1
St Bernard 4-1 6-4
Harvard-Westlake 3-2 7-3
Cathedral 2-3 5-5
Bishop Montgomery 1-4 1-9
Don Bosco Tech 0-5 5-5

Prep League
Rio Hondo Prep 5-0 5-4
Flintridge Prep 4-1 7-2
Chadwick 2-3 7-3
Viewpoint 2-3 5-4
Poly/Pasadena 2-3 3-6
Webb 0-5 1-8

Christian League
Aquinas 3-0 6-4
Ontario Christian 2-1 7-3
Western Christian 1-2 3-7
Arrowhead Christian 0-3 3-7

Academy League
St Margaret’s 3-0 10-0
Sage Hill 2-1 8-2
Brethren Christian 1-2 4-6
Capistrano Valley Christian 0-3 4-6

Alpha League
Brentwood 5-0 9-1
Maranatha 4-1 7-3
Whittier Christian 3-2 5-5
Campbell Hall 2-3 4-6
Calvary Chapel/Downey 1-4 5-4
Marshall 0-5 0-10

Olympic League
Paraclete 4-0 10-0
Valley Christian 3-1 5-5
Village Christian 2-2- 2-8
LA Baptist 1-3 3-6-1
Kilpatrick 0-4 1-9

Santa Fe League
Bell-Jeff 4-0 9-1
St Anthony 3-1 7-3
Salesian 2-2 3-7
St Genevieve 1-3 3-6
Murphy 0-4 0-9

Big Sky League League Overall
Calvary Murrieta 3-0 7-3
Linfield Christian 2-1 7-3
Hamilton 1-2 4-6
Riverside Christian 0-3 4-6

San Joaquin League
Saddleback Valley Christian 7-0 10-0
Fairmont Prep 6-1 7-3
Twin Pines 5-2 5-5
Ribet Academy 3-4 3-7
Bloomington Christian 3-3 3-6
Sherman Indian 2-5 3-7
Liberty Christian 1-6 1-8
CSDR 0-6 0-9

Private Schools in primarily Public School Leagues
Oaks Christian 4-1 7-3
St Joseph/Santa Maria 5-2 7-3
St Bonaventure 5-0 9-1
Damien 3-2 5-4-1

don you are a riot. This is nothing more than whining coming from public schools many of whom recruit anyway. I do agree with Fred about San Dimas who got screwed having to play OC. The CIF should continue to move schools up divisions when they keep winning to balance things out. All this is going to do is piss people off.

10-27 at riverside poly. I dont know how much he is making but they could have done much better than this guy

What a swell idea.

Since the Section already does such a red hot job of managing all of the schools, leagues, and divisions they do have we should allow them to assign themselves a new function and further expand their influence.

And why stop at two playoff divisions anyhow? After all it's those darn Catholic Schools, (Oh! Lou excepted), who are always upsetting the apple cart. I mean when was the last time someone whined about the Ribet Academy stealing the local pop warner star from his neighborhood school? So let's give the Catholics there own playoffs; if they want to let the Lutherans and Episcopalians in, it's OK with me. Now, you are probably gonna need another set of playoffs for the smaller privates, you know, the Baptists, the Animists, and the rich white people who don't want to educate their kids with the riff raff. So now you have three sets of playoffs, but who to run it? CIF is clearly too busy having brunch and humping sporting goods companies for money.

We need a whole new organization; new polo shirts, coffee mugs, everything. (Who said we were headed into a recession?)

Let's see? We could call it ... the Disparate Ministry of Vindication. The CIF obviously likes to abbreviate these things so we'll just call it the DMV. We can have a whole new bureaucracy here; BIG buildings with lots of people inside drawing paychecks for talking on the phone, looking at improperly filled out forms, drinking coffee, and two finger typing on outdated word processors.

I think I may be on to something.

bad idea, how much is Hagerty making? How is he not a good coach?

bad idea, how much is Hagerty making? How is he not a good coach?

Gee Fred you're sounding like a Mean Machine Clone. Isn't that what he's been saying for 2 years? Besides even with that advantage Damien is no better than a .500 team in that public school league in basketball and football for the past 5 years! So much for a competitve edge? And yes Damien needs to get better. Again you're on thin ice there Fred. Sounding like a Morrison hater and Damien realist!

New League should be

Bishop Amat for 3 years
La Salle
St. John Bosco
St. Paul
Damien
Loyola
St. Francis

Preseason

Carson
Glendora
El Dorado

Oh the irony!

I like Morrison, what rubs me the wrong way is when a team like San Dimas has to face a super power like Oaks Christian. The Saints are a team of neighborhood boys that deserve a better opportunity in the playoffs than having to face a team of hand-picked superstars.

I like Morrison, what rubs me the wrong way is when a team like San Dimas has to face a super power like Oaks Christian. The Saints are a team of neighborhood boys that deserve a better opportunity in the playoffs than having to face a team of hand-picked superstars.

Bad Idea. How many times have we heard of the reverse being true where a private school coach has left to go a public school for higher pay. The Mater Dei's and Oaks Christians of the world are the exception rather than the rule. Look at Bishop Amat. They went the cheap way with Hagerty instead of paying for a good coach. More often than not a private coach or teacher for that matter will leave a private school for public for better pay.

The top public schools do recruit so this argument about private schools having open enrollment is not a good one. How many kids transfer to charter oak, south hills, los altos and long beach poly because they are football factories I hope this gets shot down HARD

Understandable, I see your point. Although, I must admit Fred, sounds like you got a little chip on that shoulder. Morrison rub you thr wrong way or something?

Then Damien needs to get better. We're talking about fairness, and what's fair to all. Not what's in Damien's best interest. Of course Damien loves the situation it's in. It' s the only private in a league with all public's. What a huge advantage that is, or should be.

Fred,

Do you remember the combined scores of those Damien/Amat games? Only one was close, and your talking about this on a weekly basis.

Nobody is saying Damien can't play Glendora, Claremont or Chino Hills, but they should only play them in nonleague games if this proposal passes.

Damien can compete with Bishop Amat, it proved that a few years ago. There should be a league with Bishop Amat, St. Paul, St. Francis, Damien and Loyola.

Fred,
This is crazy. What type of competition would there be without Damien/Glendora, Damien/Claremont, Damien/Chino Hills? Damien is the reason those other school have a claim to any kind of fame. Their is no history at any of those schools if you take out the rivalries with Damien. My son goes to Chino Hills and I can't wait for that match up every season! I understand the idea, I just don't think anyone wins in the long run. Damien is not going to be able to match up with Bishop Amat, St. John Bosco, St. Paul...etc. on a weekly basis, and the sierra league will lose it's best weekly rivalry.

It was a joke :-)

Check the Hagerty blog lately?

I prefer to look at the uniforms :)

Nice topic Fred but the picture shows a former public school student representing a private school..."Isn't that ironic?"

350 public schools, 218 privates

How many private schools are in the southern section?