Baseball: Glendora wins title

I thought that you'd get a kick out of this one - given the discussion

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Hey Buddy! Overuse of one's arm doesn't know if your Black, latino, Asain, or white....OVERUSE is OVERUSE! This is a study done by the experts! The good doctor used the dreaded word.....OVERUSE...several times.I really thought this would be common sense.I'm reading some of the previous posts defending the actions of coach's pitching their HIGH SCHHOOL workhorse 14 innings with a 2 day rest....Come on guys don't you feel silly? Steve....I don't know what to say to you...I'm hoping someone just used your name and its really not you! That's my ONLY explanation for your post! Your leaning toward the coachs???? that's crazy! enough said! Have a great day!

Hey Buddy! Overuse of one's arm doesn't know if your Black, latino, Asain, or white....OVERUSE is OVERUSE! This is a study done by the experts! The good doctor used the dreaded word.....OVERUSE...several times.I really thought this would be common sense.I'm reading some of the previous posts defending the actions of coach's pitching their HIGH SCHHOOL workhorse 14 innings with a 2 day rest....Come on guys don't you feel silly? Steve....I don't know what to say to you...I'm hoping someone just used your name and its really not you! That's my ONLY explanation for your post! Your leaning toward the coachs???? that's crazy! enough said! Have a great day!

Steve Ramirez,
Funny that you bring up Roemer and Fullerton. If there is a school that uses pitchers in the world series a little much it would be Fullerton. I know the A's were pissed with the use of Jason Windsor by Horton in the World Series.

Steve Ramirez,
Funny that you bring up Roemer and Fullerton. If there is a school that uses pitchers in the world series a little much it would be Fullerton. I know the A's were pissed with the use of Jason Windsor by Horton in the World Series.

Latinos Up In Arms?
Major league teams have academies in this countries where they get drafted at the age of 16 sometimes earlier (fake certificates) so they are under same pitch count as US players. But we also dont have any stastics on how many of them fail or eventually need surgery.
Some people confuse throwing and pitching, it is good for pitchers to throw as much as they can (play catch, long toss) but game pitching requires more effort and stress.

NVFAN...how then do you explain the Latino players who pitch and hit their way out of poverty? Some start professionally as early as 16?

Any answers for that?

Not questioning your perspective just asking a simple question.

Overuse Please read, great info. Like i said before, is only common sense, an arm is like a car no matter how many tuneups or frequent oil changes you do miles will take a toll. Of course with proper mechanics and conditioning you will last longer but overuse will always do more harm.
So coach Ramirez i will like to ask you if all those coaches you spoke to over the years have PHDs, the second question is if all their pitchers had no injuries?
Some things are common sense and if not sure then best to be on the safe side.

hey dennis,

covina and claremont r 2 very good teams? Uh ok if thats what you want to think. Obviously it hasnt gotten damien ready for league play. Damien sucks!

This should put everything to bed! The EXPERTS have spoken huh Steve!

Dr. Orr Limpisvasti, an Anaheim sports medicine specialist and orthopedic surgeon, treats baseball players from the Angels on down to Little Leaguers.

But since most professional players started out playing youth ball, he embarked on a study funded by Major League Baseball on injuries in young pitchers. The results will be published in The American Journal of Sports Medicine.

Here he discusses the research as well as recommendations for protecting young athletes.

Q: Why are young pitchers more susceptible to injuries?

A: They play more baseball than college or professional players. They're much more prone to overuse and they're still growing.

Q: Can you describe your study of young baseball players?

A: With the advent of the biomechanical lab we've been able to capture pitching motion and calculate how much stress is being felt on the various joints in the shoulder and elbow. We took some of the more common pitching errors and to see what happened if we measure a whole bunch of kids who pitch.

We studied 169 kids between 9 and 18. We put them into the motion analysis lab. We had them pitch. We looked at the ones that pitch correctly or incorrectly. Then we looked at how that correlated with stress in the upper extremity joints. What we found was particularly in the young kids between 9 and 13 the pitchers that were able to throw with better mechanics actually had lower stress on their joints.

Q: What's an example of proper form for preventing injuries?

A: With the stride, when the front foot lands, if the position of the shoulders is still in a closed position. With the older kids or the better throwers, when the front foot hits, the shoulders haven't rotated open yet.

Most things that you look at when you're coaching pitching, it's not in the arm itself. A lot of it is actually controlled by the trunk and torso. If everything is timed correctly the arm position follows. … Little League has pitching guidelines, how much to pitch and how many days off and what types of pitches to throw.

Q: What are you doing with the results?

A: This is a study that was funded by Major League Baseball. We're probably going to discuss with them the best way to distribute this knowledge. (Proper form) is not the biggest recommendation. By far the biggest risk factor is overuse, even though our study was looking at one of the finer points.

Parents and coaches often overemphasize mechanics. Even a perfectly thrown pitch has an incredible amount of stress on the arm because it's not what the arm is meant to do. The general recommendation now to prevent overuse is three or four months off any baseball activity, which never happens in Southern California.

Q: What types of injuries do you see among young players?

A: First thing is to really establish the diagnosis, which most of the time in young players is a growth plate injury. (The growth plates are the areas of growing tissue near the ends of long bones.)

They read the press and listen to ESPN and think they're going to have the same injuries as their heroes. Being young and healthy they will heal pretty well if they allow the body to heal itself. It's rest and time.

The hardest part is the psychological aspect. That's the big hurdle when you tell a young player who plays 12 months out of the year that they have to step away from it. I often have parents that are in tears. They truly believe their 13-year-old is the next Nolan Ryan.

Contact the writer: 714-796-3686 or cperkes@ocregister.com

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Add Damien to the list of Sierra League tourny winners. They went undefeated in the Claremont tourny. They beat Claremont and Covina. 2 Very good teams

Add Damien to the list of Sierra League tourny winners. They went undefeated in the Claremont tourny. They beat Claremont and Covina. 2 Very good teams

Covinafan you are not innocent, you are addicted to this blog and you will keep coming back under the other names you use. You will keep insulting NV fans and keep bragging about scouts and college just like you always do. Then blame all the other players on your team everytime you lose.
All they long you have been posting while i drink a beer eat tacos and laugh my A...s off.
What are you going to with out me, think about it, I am your therapist.

Covina fan is hillarious, first you trying to pass the hot potatoe on all the other coaches. People forget that Chuckie had a sore arm in his mid HS career.
Good thing your kid did not get your mouth he is actually a good respectfull/quiet young man. You problaby did not ever let him talk, too busy doing all the talking. They must love this blog and me, keeps you from talking to them.
Mr. Danny Devito (aka Ramirez) why do more young pitchers get hurt more then ever before? Do any of those coaches ever told you that. I will teach you something new Danny, they throw all year round and use more junk then ever before. If you are 17yrs old with a future isnt it best to be on the careful side?

You're right on that one. Unfortunately, some Northview fans just can't seem to get off the subject. Tyler doesn't even read the blog. He is an intelligent, confident, "young" man who doesn't care to read negative things that are said about him. This has been so unbelievable and stupid that I will follow his example and stay off the blog.

I'm not saying I'm a pitching coach, but I have talked to enough coaches over the years - at the high school, college and pro level - to understand what is going on in certain situations. I've never driven a nitro Funny Car either, but I have talked to enough drivers in 15 years of covering the sport to get an understanding of what they have to experience. Does that make me an expert? No, but it does give me a better understanding than most.
It just seems in baseball, for whatever reason, everyone is an expert. I tend to lean towards the coaches.

NVfan - since you are such a wealth of information, who were Tiffany's high school coaches? Yeah, that's it, let's blame it on them. HaHaHa! You're a laugh a minute.

There is also WAY too much attention payed young Mr. Pill here.

There is also WAY too much under-informed data here.

As far as the arm problems Chuck Tiffany has had post High School, I suggest some of you do a little deeper research before you go posting a lot of baloney and pointing fingers and naming names.

For that matter, if I were associated with a particular School's team, I would be concerned about what HAS BEEN a sterling image being tarnished by what seems a bitter, cranky but highly visible hanger-on.

Are you hearing me Murph?

Covinabaseball who was Tiffany's coach at Hollenbeck and the offseason? where his was more then overused. Yes his dad and Mr. Pill.

Hey Ramirez i know a guy who jumped from a third story building and his legs did not fall off they bacame more flexible. flexible,

justafan - Nice try, but Chuckie's coaches in youth ball (at Charter Oak) were Bill Bird and Tom Nieto - everyone knows that. Pill was at West Covina. Pony ball was when Chuckie was coached by Pill and others. Can't remember who his high school coaches were. But sure, keep on going with your inaccurate info. I think we all get the message - CAUTION: Overuse of a pitcher will cause arm blowout!! Nothing like beating something to death.

Writer Ramirez all of sudden is a pitching coach, well for one example you bring i call bring 10 others who blew their arms for overpitching.
Hell Nogales is going thru one as we speak, WC had a great one a few years ago, same thing. Tiffany had a lot of miles by the time he got drafted and gues who were his youth coach? A Dad who loved the glory and Pill.

All of a sudden writer Ramirez is a pitching coach, so you bring one example and i can talk about 10 others who blew their arms out. Hell Nogales is going thru one as we speak. West Covina had a great one a few years ago, now arm is dead, Tifanny had a lot of miles on his arm and guess what? His father and Pill were the coaches. Should i keep going?

The Pill family knows the "baseball journey" quite well. Been there, done that, and continuing to do it - at all levels. Nothing posted on here is news to us, but thanks for all of your input.

The Pill family knows the "baseball journey" better than anyone. Been there, done that, and continuing to do it - at all levels. None of your info. is news to us, but thanks for all of your input.

Mrs. Pill with the glory comes the gory.

I don't hear anything that borders on jealousy or being moronic. They are just saying what is said in the stands ALL THE TIME...maybe even by you...about some other pitchers ...so relax.

Maybe your son will someday pitch for the Yankees in a Game 7 but right now he's just one inch into his baseball journey and MAYBE has a ladder to climb while others only have their high school careers and years of softball leagues but either way....it's just commentary.

Count yourself lucky it's stayed on the field. Best of luck to him. I never have been a baseball fan...Too many variables to staying healthy...especially for pitchers and plus the added "foreign" product. Enjoy your son's success and think of Ankiel....it can be over......psssst!...just like that!

Everyone Take A CHILL PILL!. The season has lots of games left in it and we will see who comes out on top. We also will see who blows out their arms or just flat out has a rubber arm by seasons end and is getting tattooed by other teams. It is a horserace and the truth is in the pudding.. lets all hold on here and then judge when playoff pairings come out.

Is Buffington a senior? If so, did he get a scholarship somewhere? Everyone should be hoping for good things from all of the kids in the area. I don't understand why people come on here to put down other players, except that they are disgruntled because their kid or whoever is not getting the attention they think he should. Anyone have another reason why bloggers do this?

Steve most likely never even played beyond his LL days. He has no clue about pitching much more about protecting ones kid and his arm. How can he even come up with comparing Tyler Pill to Wes Roemer? Maybe Tyler Pill to So. Hills Huskie Tyler Buffington which by the way is pitching allot better than Pill these days.

Most of u just want to see pill go down in flames so you have a better chance to win cif.. Tell ya a lil secret.. Pill knows what he's doing and he won't go down so get your popcorn ready

Great post from a guy who has been reporting on area sports and players for many years. Steve DOES know what he's talking about.

I don't know how a take on Glendora and Bonita winded up being a concern for Tyler Pill's durability, but since this thread has gone to that, my take is to agree with Covinabaseballfan.
I will compare it to former Glendora star Wes Roemer throwing 14 innings with only two days rest during the NCAA Regionals while a freshman at Cal State Fullerton. And get this, not only did his arm not fall off, but he actually got better. He was Collegiate Baseball's Player of the Year his sophomore year and was a consensus All-American his junior year. Now he's on the fast track to the Major Leagues.
Believe me, all who are concerned know what they are doing, because they've handled it before.

Old trick when people dont have an intelligent argument, attack the messenger by calling idiot, and jealous.

If we were jealous we problaby would not even talk about it, best for us when his arm is dead at the end of season.

Let's see - most of the comments regarding Pill are from Northview people. I sense some jealousy there or maybe it's envy. I could say so many things about him that you know nothing about, but I've spent too much time on this stupidity. Covina, Fullerton, major league scouts, and mostly his parents know what he has and what is best for him. Direct your highly intelligent advice at some other pitcher in the area. No more comments from me. This is wasting my time.

Mom, Pill has had both, when he gave up 10 runs he had he had to pitch a lot of batters, also when he beat SD, he pitched more then he had to in a blow out game, now a meaningless tournament the throws on 3 day rest, only relievers do this.
I know you enjoy his greatness but at what price?

Pill may or may not blow out right now but the college game is whole different beast. Whoever said Pill can pitch at the College level anyway? He may be a stud HS pitcher but they are a dime a dozen and he could get rocked in college, then over compensate to prove his worth then blow out the arm in college. His HS team really relys on him allot and that will have its effects down the road if he is going to college to become a pitcher. Talk about Over use, heck, see Andrew Melchor of Nogales.. shelved but could return to pitch his senior season, I am sure his parents are not going to let his coach pitch him this year when he still has a senior year to go. Watch out Pill and Fam. pitchers are a hot MLB commodity but prove you can pitch at the college level first.

Believe me, nothing anyone says on this board upsets me. Amusing might be the better word. A strikeout can take a few to many pitches, where a groundout or a fly ball out may take only one. A perfect inning for a pitcher would be 3 pitches, assuming that you have a sound defensive team. But if a pitcher doesn't strike everyone out, but instead induces outs, you say he is getting hit hard. You really don't have a clue.

Ouch! Mom dont need to be feisty, you are scratching.
But is fine, you know best. Arm is in shape (now) so no worries. Keep on throwing 7-9 innings, remember Ks take about 6 pitches.
Also remember all those pitchers in the pros/colleges do also take care of their arm and they have the best trainers around, yet they get hurt.
So just because dad cares does not mean is correct.
But what do i know, mom knows best.

Please direct your "worries" elsewhere. Pill didn't throw a lot when he was in youth ball, and in Pony was used mainly as a closer. Can't compare him at all to Chuckie or other pitchers of that time. He actually used to catch. His arm is in better shape than kids who start throwing a lot of innings at 7 or 8. No need to keep reminding his dad to "be careful". He knows, and cares, more than any of you about his son's future. Let's see, aren't there any other "over-used" pitchers in the area you can focus your attention on? LOL

Chuckie Tiffany is back but far from any whiff of being called up to the majors. He should have attended CSUF (to get a degree first) coming out of HS and then went on to the Minors of Professional Baseball. He will have a very hard time getting to the MLB game if he ever does. Sad but true, no one is ever the same after Rotator Cuff surgery. He is done and will never be the same dominant pitcher he was coming out of HS. Think throwing lots of innings in HS had anything to do with it? Is Pill going down that same road? lots of simularities as Chuckie. be careful dad.

NV fan

Chuckie Tiffany's arm is doing fine and he's back in the game.

Speed and Agility camp for HS and Youth Lineman and skill guys Saturdays at GHS from 11:30 to 1:30 see Keith Johnson or Maurice Rodriguez.

you guys exaggerate!!! you guys swear he pitches everyday! if it was 3 days rest let it be! you people swear his arm is gonna fall off

Thank you people! This is exactly why I'm not chomping at the bit for my son to pitch (after injury last year) this year - there is plenty of time, these boys are young.

baller - I agree that it is a concern for all high school pitchers, but no other pitcher was mentioned. After reading the last post by the village idiot, I think I can say I rest my case.

Well Pill goes the distance 9 innings in a meaningless game early in the season, now he throws with a three game rest in tournament that means nothing. On top of that he pitches in the off season. SD beats up on him, is this a coincidence?
A workhorse? He is only 17 and still growing, do you remember Tiffany? another workhorse, how is his arm now?
An arm is like a car, all the tune ups in the world will not take away the miles. Surprise his dad allows this.

Thanks covinabaseballfan, the fact is (for me, anyhow) nothing is better than to point at a guy five, ten , (God willing) twenty years down the road and say “I saw this kid when ...”, and tell a success story.

Even better is the “this guy played for me on the ... version”.

Been at it since 1977 and I'll let it keep me young as long as God allows.

As far as young Pill's arm goes, I have no worries. Dad is one of the better BB heads here in the area and I would be shocked to see him let Ty's arm health slide.

DF: Sorry, not too big on NCAA roundball. Too mercenary for me; really highlights why I love HS sports so much.

As far as the local camp for linemen, I think it's a swell idea. There are already hordes of off-season camps for the skill guys; too few for the cats in the trenches. If you go forward with the idea, I'd like to hear about it. It sounds like something worth pursuing.

These concerns are for ALL high school pitchers! not, just Pill! I didn't know who he was until a Covina parent said it was him pitching at the D.B. game. No insults here just the facts about over pitching a kid nothing personal! It just doesn't seem right!

now now mrs.pill = covinabaseballfan, don't get yourself all riled up.

Don - love your posts. Great insights and they are not directed at anyone in particular. It's amazing to me how much love and concern all of you have for Pill's arm, when all you seem to do on this blog is talk trash about him. Direct your so-called "concern" at someone else. His arm is in good hands! LOL

Classic Don. Donny you're scaring me. That's why they call ttueisms. I know coaches have to spin the results of games but I like the coaches who tell it like it is.

Catch Calipari's act after Memphis lost down the stretch?

Wanted to ask you a question. There are QB Camps, Spped trainers but no DL/OL trainers ...why? I was asked to "back" a group with indoor facilities and run by college level coaches, kind of a SPARQS camp but technique driven in the an Gabriel Valley. Some are retired and some "taking a break"...any thoughts?

I

That is California for you. Nice weather and the game and pitchers play year round, ever wonder why their arms are falling off the shelf with injuries. Take those Mid-West and East Coast HS players and their arms are ripe and primed for the college game coming out of HS. Pisses me off how it is a meat market for a coaches ego to throw a kid so much for the glory of their won loss record. Where are our priorities. The biggest ones to blame are the parents that allow this. Shame on all of you.

Funny about this hue and cry over damaging Pitcher's arms during the HS season.

The fact is that most High School kids who end up with sore arms or worse suffer not from the HS play, but from throwing too much for teams away from school. Dominant Pitchers are always in demand on a variety of levels and too many coaches from Legion to Connie Mack to Babe Ruth to the “showcase” teams hook these boys up with the assurance that they will care for the kid's arm like it was golden.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and sometimes the kid ends up playing on multiple teams for different coaches who all want to win and really, how many 17 or 18 year olds will give you yesterday's pitch count when you ask if they can throw an inning or two. Do this for 2 or three teams for a few months after the HS season and a little more over the winter season and to paraphrase Everett Dirksen, pretty soon it adds up to some real pitches.

SGV, I was at the Saturday game, he's pitch count wasn't low . Diamond Bar had bases loaded several times and left runners on almost every inning. Hmmmm, is SGV a coach from Covina? You do the pitch count!

Work horse= RED FLAG pitch his arm off!

Work horse= RED FLAG pitch his arm off!

Work horse= RED FLAG pitch his arm off!

Work horse= RED FLAG pitch his arm off!

Hey, SGVbaseball fan!Your comparing High School baseball with College and Pro's....Come on buddy wake up! Somebody needs to protect this kids arm!

sgvbaseballfan,

Just browsing through the blog and saw your comment about pitching. I will keep it real simply you are talking out of your a**. Example, two of the best pitchers in the majors Penny and Peavy pitched on 3/31, 4/5 and scheduled 4/10. That is FOUR days rest. This kid Pill from Covina pitched on 4/5 then 4/8 that is two days of rest, simple math. Sounds like a coach that has no clue and/or don't care about the future of his kids.

The fact of the matter is MOST high school coach's DON'T pitch their #1 guy like that!I'm not from Covina so I don't know the inside but, the bottom line is he's young don't throw he's arm out! That's B.S. about work horse and he knows how to take care of his arm that's crap! I have seen it over and over again in travel ball. Don't be surprised if he's arms trashed by the end of is senior year!My thoughts are about young arms in general not just this kid. I was shocked to find out he pitched 8 innings after 5 or 6 innings against Diamond Bar that's all! Pitch count.....You do the math!

Why is everone hounding Root and Merrill for just giving there team the best chance to win. Pill is a quality arm and can handle being a workhorse.
The coaches are damned if they do and damned if they dont. If he wasnt pitching in these games then everyone would be asking WHY?
All because, some of these parents are just that parents, and not coaches.

Another in a continuing series of translations, interpretations, and decodings to assist the casual observer in understanding the statements of coaches, correspondents, and other “analysts”.

Today's subject: Tournament play

What he said: “Winning and losing wasn't as important to us as getting work for the kids who needed it.”

What he meant: After losing game one 16-1 we knew we had no chance in the thing so we brought the whole JV team and six freshmen up. Those letter jackets will look great at the football games.

What he said: “The only game of a doubleheader that matters is the first one.”

What he meant: We split two.

What he said: “What really matters is league play, these off-week tournaments are really just for fun.”

What he meant: We went 1-3.

What he said: “All the kids played with intensity today.”

What he meant: We scored 15 runs.

What he said: “We failed to execute when we had to.”

What he meant: They scored 15 runs today.

What he said: “We saw no reason to change the same pitching rotation we use all season; it seems to be working fine so far”

What he meant: We have exactly two kids who can throw strikes harder than 60 MPH.

This explains covinas program and coaching perfectly....not good. Pill u better speak up buddy cuz your coaches dont know any better

This explains covinas program and coaching perfectly....not good. Pill u better speak up buddy cuz your coaches dont know any better

That's 3 days rest the average rest for a collage or professional pitcher.. If you take care of your arm you are fine to do that.. And innings isn't what matters its pitch count. Pill threw 6 on saturday and 8 tuesday.. Plenty of rest for somone who knows how to take care of there arm

Hey, did anyone notice that Pill from Covina pitched Saturday against Diamond Bar and then again on Tuesday 8 inninngs! Did he pitch any league games the week before? Can you say, throw his arm out?As, a parent of a pitcher.....Hell no!

Good questions Fred on tournaments. Let me try to answer a few. To really put stock into a tournament, you'd have to be able to see most of the teams play or really look at box scores to see what teams threw their best guys and what games did they not have anyone to throw, which means jv and freshman guys may have thrown, which you throw out completely because those kids will not throw in the games that matter. The games that matter are the ones you look at, which league play is the focus of most teams. Don't get me wrong, winning a tournament is impressive, but you can't judge teams that rest guys or don't throw their best guys in certain games. This usually explains a great 2-1 win on one day and get beat by a so-so team the next day 10-2, which you see in tournament games. You also look at what their draw or bracket was for the tournament. To be honest, look at the teams in the Arcadia Tournament and Gladstone Tournament vs. the teams in the Glendora Tournament and Northview Tournament. Skating into the championship is nice. My suggestion is reward teams that win tournaments, but not too much movement for teams that don't...remember if you have 10 teams, 9 didn't win, if you have 12, 11 didn't win the tournament.

That's pretty accurate! Your being a good sport! taking all your lumps in stride! Keep your sense of humor.