Football tab coming Sept. 3

My son has a mild to moderate loss of hearing, but I don't choose to game the system -

#1 fan all he has to do is say he has a hearing problem or that there is a certain class at SHHS that WC does not have and he is in. Real easy to do.

Fred
That BS if Jacob Shirley receives a hardship from CIF. He shouldn't be able to play any sports at South Hills. WC is just down the street.

Aztec buddy, this was cut and pasted from the cal preps rankings article. Enjoy buddy. Oh wait where is azusa listed??? NO-WHERE. lol

Mid-Valley Division (Div. XI)
1. San Dimas, 2. Paraclete, 3. Cerritos Valley Christian, 4. South El Monte, 5. Rosemead, 6. Northview, 7. El Monte, 8. Baldwin Park, 9. Whittier Christian, 10. Monrovia, 11. Blair, 12. L.A. Baptist, 13. Covina, 14. San Marino, 15. Arroyo, 16. La Canada, 17. Temple City, 18. Duarte, 19. La Puente, 20, Sun Valley Christian

Fred's take: Yeah, Saints deserve the top spot, and Duarte is a little too far down the list. Also, I would put Northview ahead of Rosemead.

Ya i played against Arzu and Sierra Vista. They use to be the team to beat for the League championship. Then they switched leagues and were never the same when they came back.

I recall Don Legro coaching at Sierra Vista. He was an LA alum whose dad owned and operated Legro's barbershop in the Heights. All the players were sent there by Despain to get their haircuts prior to Hell Week I believe. I played Little Leauge and Pony ball with Ken, Don's older brother.

Does anybody remember when Sierra Vista actually was a tough team? Don Legro(sp?) was the head coach. Oscar Interiano had a ton of yards rushing. I think he actually may be the SGV all-time leader. Then they had another guy named Oscar Arzu. They definitely got after for a small school at that time (10-12 years ago).

I drove thru azusa once and farted. I think the smell is still there.

Aztec Pride, all it is, is a prediction. Who predicted the Giants to beat the Pats in the superbowl? This is why we play the game, to prove these little predictions false. Fred is prob the only one who thinks this. well besides you. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but someone has to. I don't hate azusa, I just bleed FALCON BLUE... And like i said before azusa is a doormat in this league. they may get 3rd or 4th, but not #1. Even if it isnt Duarte, there's still Gladstone and LP. Sierra Vista use to be one of the best til they left and couldn't handle the bigger boys. lol. Like I said Duarte is too FAST and too STRONG not to be #1 or 2. and azusa should stick to girls golf like you had mentioned.

Thanks FRED, for making my (DAY), for your predictions article about AZUSA! winning this year!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHH!

You've heard of the saying, "He who last laugh, has the last laugh"! All you little ankle bitters out there, hating on AZUSA, saying were garbage! Well your wrong boys and girls...

Well read were FRED, has AZUSA WINNING THIS YEAR! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!

Azusa Haters,

FYI: Azusa, can't be that bad..Fred has them favored to win league.

Football Jones

Jack Clark grew up the city of Azusa but attended Gladstone High School.

Hey I can name 3 in the last 15 yrs that made it. Damien Shelton- NFL, Charles Pauley-Arena League, and Dennis Weathersby-NFL even though it was cut short due to being shot in the back a week before the draft. Both Dennis and Charles were teammates of mine.

AZTEC PRIDE

You talked about Jack Clark and Ceddrick Bonner coming from Azusa. Hey that is great 2 athletes in the 60 years of the schools history.

Can you name any good athletes they will have this year on their football team? That maybe we should keep our eyes open for BAH BAH BAH BAH!!

AZTEC PRIDE

You must be a graduate of Azusa Schools. You make no sense we are talking about Football for the most part here and maybe a few other boys sports and the only thing you can bring up is a girl golfer. Who cares about girls golf. Next you will be bragging about cross country, swimming, and heck badminton (do they even play that any more?) I bet they probably do at Azusa and they are probably good at it because you do not need size or speed to play it!

Stepping back a bit:

Is this the same mrman that was trashing LP not too long ago? mrman went to Edgewood and had the nerve to trash LP? WOW, I would have thought this clown came from the Covina Hills, Arcadia, San Marino or some other high falootin' area but from the Edgewood area? What a two faced fool you are mrMAN. I bet you grew up within an earshot of Kiefer Stadium.

I've been reading where Los Altos will be rebuilding this year. Just wondering, how were their JV, and Freshman teams last year? Good records? Any potential impact players?

I know the LA tradition well, and we always have guys step up!

Come on Aztec Pride!

Are we really having this debate?

Azusa High has not had an excellent football team for many years. Pointing out the fact, that Azusa had a great golfer is irrelevant. Since, we are talking about football.

I grew up in Azusa and I went to Gladstone. All I can recall is that Charter Oak, San Dimas, and Baldwin Park beat up the other Montview League teams in football. Azusa and Gladstone were not really a factor in football generally.

In recent years, the Montview League, with the exception of Duarte, has been terrible. I am not a Duarte fan. But, those are the facts!

The previous bloggers are correct about what happens to good Azusa athletes when they decide to go to high school. They do not attend schools in Azusa. They attend Amat or they go to another school. For example, I grew up with Eric Bieniemy and he decided to attend Bishop Amat. He grew up around Gladstone High School.

also aztec pride, Duarte was one game from the championship game in 06 just 2 yrs ago. it's all about what have you done for me lately. thank you and have a good day...

Sorry Aztec Pride but azusa is garbage when it comes to football. They have always been the doormat team of the Montview League, along with Basset and Workman that is. The only true contenders are Duarte, Gladstone and La Puente, pretty much in that order. And Duarte did make it to the CIF Championship game in 93 or 94 i believe it was and if it wasnt for a few injuries they would have won it.

Speed Training | August 26, 2008 12:43 PM

SUCKS!

Azusa bashers,

Every kid has the right to be proud of the school they play for. Knocking the city and the kids isn't what this blog is about. True appreciaters of athletes and the sports they play wouldn't be slamming kids for being proud of their schools, teams and cities. Azusa has had many great athletes and coaches.

Ok superstar! Did your school win a Football CIF TITLE LAST SEASON! UUUUUHHHH no, because no SGV school won there division title last season! Better yet tell me the last year a SGV team has went all the way and won a CIF title???

chirp, chirp...

a title in the 80s? baaa haa so thats over 20 years of sucking? now thats something to be proud of. You really need to pick a better topic than azusa sucky sports program.

CIF Baseball Champs against Baldwin Park, at Dodger Stadiumn. In the 80's era. You were probably in kindergarten and wouldn't know that.

Baseball league champs over Duarte,this year and lost in the second round of the play-offs to St. Paul 8-6.

Probably the best womens golfer to come out of any valley school and now at USC. LIZZETT SALAS, AZUSA Graduate.

AZUSA has made the first round of the CIF play-offs the last several years!

Is that sufficent enough for you chimp chimp!

AZUSA AZTECS!

when is the last time azusa won a cif title in anything? Can you tell me? I hear crickets

Verification, your probably right! AZUSA, is much to rough for you, they'll probably take your lunch money their!LOL!

Stay in your 90210 Beverly Hills, comfort ZONE!LOL! GENIUS...

AZTEC PRIDE.

mike you just proved the point that azusa is in a crappy area and kids leave there for a better education and better sports teams. thanks for verifying our point

Right on mikeandmike, my son played with Sainz in football,with the AZUSA RAIDERS, and played against Andrade,at Gladstone Park in AZUSA, were he played for the Yankee's. And even back then, the boy can throw a baseball.

And for you old timers, that's were Jack Clark, played at Gladstone Park. Oh yeah don't forget to mention Ceddrick Bonner, played at AZUSA High School also, and went to the NFL, and just retired from Arena Football.

So it goes to show you, good athletes can come from small schools.

AZTEC PRIDE!

In Azusa's defense (the city, not the school) a lot of the kids do leave the city to attend private schools and sometimes other public schools. A lot of the time its the parents decision to move their kids because of the education at the school. And to SGV Football Follower a lot of azusa players do start at the high schools they attend, some of you Amat people might remember Jonathan Cornell '06 (LB at Ole' Miss) and Brandon Bennett '06 (OL at UCLA) both grew up and attended schools in Azusa. Phillip Sainz the sophmore running back last year at Damien played his pop warner football in Azusa. Mark Andrade the stand out at Northview played his Little League and (i believe but i could be wrong) his Pony baseball in Azusa. Now the majority of city might be small and undersized but Azusa has and still does produce athletes.....it just might 1 out of every 60 kids.

Along time ago, in an era far far away, Azusa, Glendora, La Puente, W. Covina, South Hills, Wilson, Covina, Los Altos and maybe a couple of other schools all competed as the original Sierra League.

What a time it was, I could not of told you at the time, where Azusa, Glendora or maybe even W. Covina were but each schools mascot was on the inside of our gym!

**Optimal Sports Training**

Optimal Sports is an Athletic Training Facility with TWO locations, one in Hacienda Heights and another in Upland. They specialize in all sports, with an extreme emphasis on improving the athletes core power!

Overall athleticism will vastly improve, especially Speed, Power, Vertical Jump and of course EXPLOSIVNESS!!!

We pride ourselves in getting RESULTS and making you the best athlete you can possibly be!!

Our clients range from 9 years old to Professional Athletes

Feel Free to give us a call to set up your FREE trial workout!!

(909) 815-6483 ask for Bobby Godinez

You can Check us out at www.optimal-sports.com

Some of our current Clients are

Kendall Williams (5 Star c/o 2010 UCLA COMMIT)\
Taylor Spears (c/o 2012 ESPN Top Ranked Incoming Frosh Mater Dei H.S.)
Larry Teiu (Biola University) Basketball
Swing Chiuag (07’ Taiwan HS POY) Basketball
Dustin Heiman (Abeline Christian) Basketball
Alexa Johnson (University of Nebraska) Basketball
Jason Vargas (New York Mets) James Jones (Green Bay Packers)
Brigham Harwell (UCLA Bruins) Sarah Farnworth (2004 Softball Olympian)
Shaun Cody (Detroit Lions) Travis Brown (Cincinnati Bengals) Ray Rodriguez (San Jose State) Ryan McMahon (USC Trojans)
Chapelle Brown (Univ. of Colorado) Matt Castello (Seattle Seahawks)
Jonathan Rabe (Univ. of Nevada) Mt. San Antonio Softball (07’ State Champs)
John Broussard (Jacksonville Jags) Maverick Olivares (UC Irvine) Baseball
Melanie Ahumada (Cal. Baptist 2008 All-American)

Hey MrMan1...

you wrote "...then Edgewood or the 2 middle schools wanted have closed in the early 90's."
I presume you meant "wouldn't have closed..." Boy that Edgewood education is really paying off! Looks like the green and gold left quite a legacy!

AZTEC PRIDE

You are a fool. The reason you can compete at the lower levels, ie pop warner, pony league baseball, etc. is because the athletes stay in the city when they are young. When they get to high school they transfer out because they believe they are going to go big time. Which never happens, heck half of the time those transfers do not ever see the field for the school they transfer to. But they could have been a big fish in a small pond if they would have stayed at Azusa.

You yourself said they lack size and speed, how the heck do you expect to win in football with out either of those? Heart can only take you so far. The coaching is not the problem either. Shuster did a great job when he was there to make them a playoff team every year and Scherf the new coach is a good guy and if he continues to build upon what Shuster started they will be fine in their league. However, when it comes to the playoffs they will struggle because they lack size and speed. I also think they lack toughness.

You are an idiot if you think what the guy teaches has an effect on the football program. There are many coaches who teach subjects other than PE that have won champioships. Get a clue AZTEC PRIDE or maybe and education! Are you scared of math?!

Times are hard and business is slow and some are shutting down due to economic downturns, so by coming in the blog to advertise must mean the decline in enrollment at this so called training facility. Trying to gain free access to advertise by ways of a blog is a loser company to begin with. Sounds like this one is going out of business soon. Stay away from it because they cannot and will not honor your contract if they go belly up.

Speed Training

Bobby, get off the board. Buy some real advertising and quit trying to get something for free.

Your program is average at best. Would never bring my son back.

**Optimal Sports Training**

Optimal Sports is an Athletic Training Facility with TWO locations, one in Hacienda Heights and another in Upland. They specialize in all sports, with an extreme emphasis on improving the athletes core power!

Overall athleticism will vastly improve, especially Speed, Power, Vertical Jump and of course EXPLOSIVNESS!!!

We pride ourselves in getting RESULTS and making you the best athlete you can possibly be!!

Our clients range from 9 years old to Professional Athletes

Feel Free to give us a call to set up your FREE trial workout!!

(909) 815-6483 ask for Bobby Godinez

You can Check us out at www.optimal-sports.com

Some of our current Clients are

Kendall Williams (5 Star c/o 2010 UCLA COMMIT)\
Taylor Spears (c/o 2012 ESPN Top Ranked Incoming Frosh Mater Dei H.S.)
Larry Teiu (Biola University) Basketball
Swing Chiuag (07’ Taiwan HS POY) Basketball
Dustin Heiman (Abeline Christian) Basketball
Alexa Johnson (University of Nebraska) Basketball
Jason Vargas (New York Mets) James Jones (Green Bay Packers)
Brigham Harwell (UCLA Bruins) Sarah Farnworth (2004 Softball Olympian)
Shaun Cody (Detroit Lions) Travis Brown (Cincinnati Bengals) Ray Rodriguez (San Jose State) Ryan McMahon (USC Trojans)
Chapelle Brown (Univ. of Colorado) Matt Castello (Seattle Seahawks)
Jonathan Rabe (Univ. of Nevada) Mt. San Antonio Softball (07’ State Champs)
John Broussard (Jacksonville Jags) Maverick Olivares (UC Irvine) Baseball
Melanie Ahumada (Cal. Baptist 2008 All-American)

For you folks that don't know where AZUSA is located, it's between Glendora, and Duarte. And just a few miles down is Monrovia, San Dimas, and Charter Oak.

AZUSA has been playing these schools for years in all different types of sports. From popwarner football, pony baseball and basketball.

AZUSA competes well with all them. But what I can't figure out is, when it comes to High School football,they don't do well against these schools.

AZUSA is predominately Hispanic,and what it lacks is size and speed.

And bottom line it's the Freakin coaching. When your math teacher, becomes the head coach, something is wrong there.

Having the right coaches makes the difference!

Edgewood is too good of a high school campus not to be used as a high school. But the district would have to open at least one other middle school to absorb the middle school population currently at Edgewood. The old Coronado campus that is reopening is relatively small and will only hold about 5-600 students. What other campus might they use for a middle school if they decide to reopen the High School?

EDGEWOOD IS COMING BACK!! I was in high school during their goods of the 80's. If West Covina Unified hadn't bought that lame excuse for a computer system (this system ended up bankrupting the district), then Edgewood or the 2 middle schools wanted have closed in the early 90's.

Can't wait to see the yellow and green again!

I don't give a rats ass what you guys think about mountview league. Especially DHS Falcons. We have under 30 boys they play offense and defense. They don't give up. We start the season against ayala, monrovia, pamona then south hills. We are not scared of any of your big schools. If the parents of the kids that live in Duarte would put there kids in DHS we would be better. I know you people claim we are a ghetto school but you live in Duarte so you too are ghetto. Our distinguished school is academically better than most of the big schools. What I mean to say is GO FALCONS... We might be a small school but we will play in anybody's field.

Falcon Pride

This has been a fantastic blog. Each of the teams (LA, SD, Bonita, etc) have a number of spirited supporters. It's really good four our kids to be supported in such a passionate way. I'm a Saint fan and I refuse to predict any scores, it would go against what the SD coaches are teaching the players. However, I'm really pleased by the support shown for the various teams here and I hope this positive and spirited type of blog continues. No need for trash talking, only support for the fine players and programs throughout the SGV. Good work Fred!

la people, you must have a big line that was not at passing league, passing league means nothing, granted, however, that being said, who is going to save your butts? you have very little skill people, your q's are very average, your receivers are something we cannot talk about, i dont get it? you wouldnt last ten minutes in the sierra league

one title since 1985? haaa haaa there is no defending azusa. its like amat. its in a crappy neighboorhood.

actually they have won numerous track and field n xcountry events. back in 85 workman n vincent blow won cif in basketball. in that is a fact

AZTEC PRIDE You must be high. I know for sure if Azusa played Los Altos they would get rolled (prediction LA 65 Azusa 0). I believe San Dimas is in your division now and I have to give it to them for playing bigger teams like LA. Granted they are going to get rolled too, (prediction LA 35 SD 14) but at least they are not playing the pushovers you play. I agree with SGV FOOTBALL FOLLOWER the Montview League is weak. Has anyone in the history of that league ever won a CIF title for football. For that matter has anyone in that league ever won a CIF title in any sport? The Montview could not compete in most pop warner playoff divisions that is how weak that league is.

ConqAlum

11 rings, my mistake.

I have been lucky enough to see most of those games. The '73 squad was listed as #2 in the country behind Faust's Moeller High in Cincinnati. I think the next year was when T.C, Williams of "Remember the Titans" fame was listed number two nationwide.

I don't recall the Mike Smith lead team of '82's final ranking, but boy he tore right through Esperanza at the Big A, made it look simple.

by the way azusa sucks in soccer too. wait they suck in all sports.

AZTEC PRIDE

You have no clue. Passing leagues are not real football. And the Montview League is probably the weakest league in the valley. No team other than Duarte has won a playoff game in the last 15 years from your league. You will probably have a pretty good reacord this year because you have a weak schedule. The first 2 teams you open up with were a combined 0 and 20 last year plus you play in a weak league.

After looking at your schedule on max preps you will probably finish with at least a record of 8 and 2. You will make the playoffs and lose in the first round because nobody from the montview league can win a playoff game.

The Montview League is better than that! With the exception of Bassett, the league should be higher ranked then 16th!

The league may not have the size needed to play with the bigger schools and boys, but they do have lots of heart and don't back down!

AZUSA, held there own in the passing league games, and i'm looking forward to when AZUSA & Ganesha kick off the season on 09/04/08.

I hope there's no morons out there, stating all we do is play soccer!PLEASE!!!

This will be AZUSA'S YEAR!

ConqAlum/Don:

Gano's staff actually talked about implementing some shotgun the last couple of Summers. Not much ever came of it (Fair's attitude to the whole thing was that a team should either run the offense [like Bonita] or don't. Only going out in shotgun spread third and long isn't fooling anyone, and is a recipe for the ball going over the QB's head a couple times a season).

I think a lot of it has to do with comfort zones though... when the chips are down, a coach is going to run what he is comfortable with. For Gano, that meant a balanced set with a fullback and tight end, and throwing on at least half the downs. Just like Farrar is inevitibly going to run the 1-back set, Podley's going to run shotgun, Oviedo tended to go with the 2-tights play-action system, etc.

It will be interesting to see what Aguilar/Urrutia settle on.

LA-7
SD-28

Football Jones:

re- LA coaching staff

A little of each, actually. In Gano's last year, the "new school" coaches like Sal Ortiz and Marc Estrada were much more involved in the day-to-day running of the program... so a lot of "Aguilar's" guys were actually in place already. Mike Urrutia was Aguilar's QB coach under Gano, went to Northview to be OC, and came back to LA to be Aguilar's OC. The offensive backfield coach (Hernandez?) is also new (came from Amat IIRC). Coach Reeder had been handling the kickers and receivers for a few years under Gano. So the only real longtime holdovers are Lee Fair and Tracy Flores.

So you have:

New School:
Aguilar, Ortiz, Estrada, maybe Hernandez

Middle School:
Urrutia, Reeder

Old School:
Fair, Flores

I love the way you folks are talking about the game! As someone that doesn't know all about the different strategies it's refreshing. Thanks for the education and keep it coming. Your classy, on point discussing is invigorating.

LA fans,

Question: did entire varisty coaching staff remain intact upon Gano's retirment or did Aguilar have to bring in staff?

Just curious...

~Football Jones

"Conq76"

11 Rings:
1972
1973
1976
1977
1982 (best ever imo)
1986
1988
1999
2000
2002
2003

Nothing wrong with the Pro Set, and the direct snap is the best way to keep the defense guessing; pass, or run?

Besides, they can't keep the flow of needed althletes coming to LA to run a spread, year after year (demographics).

Looking forward to a good year for Glendora, I think the team will have alot of good seasons for years to come,having Jr all American back & having kids that played tackle before their freshman year is a big +. We will see who has the bragging rights at the end of the year.Good luck to all & stay heathly.

Conq76 makes some interesting points about the L A formations in the emerging Aguilar era. Gano, (and Coach DeSpain before him), always seemed to have a few Contreras/Rodriguez/Mahmud-Mcbride type guys to help sustain the traditional offensive sets, (for area prototype, see Charter Oak), but by most accounts this season's team will be more like last years post injury crew. Actually, the 08-09 bunch seems to have a similar level of talent and size as the rest of the teams in the SGV, (except Amat, C O, Diamond Ranch, and South Hills who all look a little bigger and a little deeper than the rest).

One model Coach Aguilar may want to consider is Bonita where Eric Podley seems to make more out of less than anyone else within 20 miles. The spreadwestcoastrunandshoot offense is well suited to undersized teams as is the 3-4 multifrontblitzifakedyouout defense. Add to that the terrific job the Bonita staff does developing QB's; Gold-Williams-Chavez and now maybe the best of the bunch, Terry Paradez, you have to wonder whether the wave of the future for the Conq's has already been seen just out east a bit.

Con76...why not just volunteer and coach. You apparently know alot about LA and the history there maybe peopel know your history as well.

So many alumni get on this blog and go over the team's scheme and philosophy without the benefit of understanding te actual dynamics involved.

Times change. Players come and go. ANYONE who has a point of contention with Gano or Despain is a moron. 12 Championships. Countless athletes with honors and scholarships, the stands and fans packing the stadium year in and year out. Boosters that supply every need for every player. A history that is second to none in the San Gabriel Valley...and that goes for Amat as well. Apples and Oranges so the Amat fans can relax.

Aguilar may fail miserably or he may only gain a small measure of success incrementally but the truth is "he" loves the school and put himself out there...with Gano's vote of confidence I say give the man a chance.

Either way even GRI must admit when people suit up it ..."best man wins"....no matter who transfers in the bottom line is nut up and deal with the cards you're dealt. THAT'S FOOTBALL!

I've gone to a few practices at LA and they are a work in progress no doubt but they do WORK. Best of luck to LA this year and Coach Aguilar it was pleasure to see you play...thanks for the memories...NO LET'S MAKE SOME MORE!!!!!!

Knows All

For the record LA has won 12 CIF titles since 1973 but those titles do nothing for this years team other than underscore my alma maters heritage. Will that motivate some kids? Sure, but to the level that they can overcome the traditional stumbling blocks experienced by brand new head coaches, who often coach with high levels of enthusiasm but will lack savvy and decision making skills.

Aguilar apparently has some resources and obviously understands the tradition @ LA, but that tradition cannot replace the growing curve he must go through and the experience he will garner over time.

I am curious if he will implement some new looks to the offense. LA has run the same pro-set since Despain and to my knowledge, no LA QB has ever taken anything but a direct snap. These relatively new, spread offenses have hurt us in the past, and, if he has the atheletes, I would encourage him to try and implement some of those schemes.

Go Chargers

you put up some good points but i personally fell
we have a great secondery there gonna do really well
2 out of our 3 linebackers are gonna do good one has questions regarding attacking holes
2 out of 3 d line are gonna be good this is gonna be the biggest question but we still dont even know who gonna start in that third spot are even whos even in competion for that spot

overall i think defense is gonna do
pretty good this year they have there questions but this is a pretty good dfense

Bearcat Faithful

If you listen to you're coach, the offense isn't going to be your problem, but your defense is a BIG Q mark.

Good luck against the Saints, it will be great game! Looking at the past numbers, its clear Bonita hasn't stopped Barbone over the last two years, even when you won in 04/05.

SD4Life

ur already talking trash u got the smudgepot its not gonna happen again well see how u do without nico when we take him out our passing attack is way better than your running attack just cause i think ur better then Los Altos doesnt mean were not gonna beat u were gonna shut down TEAM NICO
from a current Bonita player

San Dimas is going to smirk on everybody this year.Withem, Doll, Big Boots, Barbone and Kalmar are going to whoop the pansy bearcats.Aint no doubt that they will win leauge this year. oh and baldwin park was a fluke last year.

SD4Life

LA PARENT

San Diamas is our rival so we know them better than any team the current team they have could compete for the miramonte if they were in our league ur underestimating them u are right about one thing they are one dimensional if u stop the run u win the game and why dont u leave the trash talking 2 the players and stop trying 2 relive ur high school days

and since ur talking so much trash when u win a game in league let me know how many did u win last year oh yeah thats right none except if u count that forfit win

CONQ 73

sorry for any trash i was talking on Los Altos but LA PArent was really pissing me off good luck this year well se u in october u represent los altos good
ur how evryone should be on this blog good job

heres my prediction

los altos wont be able to stop the run in the first half and SD will start the game off 21-0 then los altos will make the adjustments and los altos will shut down the run los altos will score 14 straight points but SD will break a big run to put the game out of reach

LA 14
SD 21

Impressed,

The information about what the San Dimas program has accomplished is correct to my knowledge give or take a game or two. Many of the kids come to our house, and have nothing but good things to say about the coaches, and the way the program is run. I can assure you that the coaches do not ease up in any way. They expect a great deal, and care a great deal. Cant ask for more from a group of coaches. I've thanked many of you in person, and I thank you again.

Proud SD Parent

Knows All is with me. Guess we're the only real believers here. This will be my last post until the "I told you so" post Saturday the 6th.

Dan,
Thinning out the talent pool could be, unfortunately, a huge understatement. Devastating the talent pool may be more appropriate, especially if the kids do not have a choice of school.

LA PARENT,

You're 'flying solo' on this thread.....

Good Luck,

~Football Jones

Now that is one of the more interesting facts I've seen on here. Provided the SD Coaching staff really did take a 1-19 Freshman and JV team to eventual league champs. Can anyone confirm this as a fact? If so, my hat is off to the SD coaching staff.

From a football perspective, I hope they don't open a highschool at
Edgewood, that would thin out West Co's talent pool,but if it enhances the kids education then I can understand... it still stings though.
As for our ex QB, going to South Hills, distance wise He's closer to West Co than S.Hills, don't understand how it could be a hardship... Kid, what seems like greener pastures isn't always the case, come back home.

All this talk between San Dimas & Los Altos is getting me curious, I see this as a close game, Los Altos may be rebuilding, but I don't think Los Altos football has fallen so far as to get blown out by a Val Vista level team.
On the other hand, any group of coaches that can
take a group of kids who were 1 & 19 as freshmen & JV's and turn these same kids into league champs, must know a thing or two, maybe this years Saints are not your typical Val Vista level team, kind of like the 05, & 06 Covina Colts teams led by Michael Mc D.
The Cal Preps league rankings don't mean much at the beginning of the season, as the season progresses the rankings get better, but the games still have to be decided on the field, having the Del Rio that much further above the San Antonio is a joke, I think the top two teams in the San Antonio would beat all teams in the Del Rio,as for the bottom three, the Del Rio
may have the edge. Just my opinion.

LA Parent

You apparently are not respected by your own fans.

Maybe you should take some good advise.

LA Parent

Little boy Felipe wasn't the head coach...

He didn't win squat as the HEAD COACH!

Better be concerned about our sister, they roll up the yards!

Can't wait to beat on your guys again this year. Our passing game will eat up your little punks on D..

Bearcat fan,

I'll take our coaches over SDs any day! If you don't know our head coach won 2 CIF Championships for Los Altos. How many have they won at San Dimas, or Bonita for that matter? Isn't SD your rival? Quit sticking up for your little sister.

Conq 73,

You shut your mouth, before I find out who you are and shut it for you. We're for the same team, but you better be careful what you say to me.

LA Parent,
I'm not talking Sh*t or anything here, I just really think you are underrating SD. I agree with you that they may be one dimensional, but I don't think they care. They are going to have a huge OL and 3 really good backs in that Wing-T offense. LA is going to be young with a new staff...can they stop the Saints running game??? NV should have the big play capability, but it will depend on who their new TB is!

LA PARENT

Why do you keep fueling the fire for SD?

As I told you, shut you're mouth and lets settle this on the field.

Some of us don't agree with your tactics and its really not the way approach this game..

LA Parent | August 24, 2008 11:12 AM

I wouldn't go talking about coaches..

Hows that litte wet noddle for a coach.. Talk about GREEN around the ears!

Knows All (Or should we say knows Nothing)

Dude, you speak from limited experience and as I statement before, you dont no s---.

Lets roll!

Raul,

Interesting for you to say that, because our people here seem to be more worried about NVs big play capabilities, than a one dimentional, soft, poorly coached SD.

I'll tell you what LA fans, I am a Northview supporter and I don't think this game is going to be close! SD 41 - LA 14. I realize that LA has the tradition, but honestly this SD team is going to be pretty damn good! My Vikings are going to have to do something remarkable to compete with the Saints for the VVL title. Just being honest and giving my two cents!

both teams suckkkk

both teams suckkkk

WOW

I am not saying SD is a pushover. I am saying they are not up to the level of LA. LA is a football school and has 7 or 8 CIF championships in football, where SD has none. LA knows what it takes to win, SD is just learning. I do not think SD is tough enough nor are they talented enough to take on LA. I like SD trying to play better competition but I do not think they are ready for this challenge. Like I have stated before I heard they are not working very hard and I also heard from a player himself that he is not the same player he was last year at this time. That is not a good combo for the opening game against LA. SD also is known for being soft and when things are not going their way they fold. What I have stated is that when things start off bad for them against LA they will fold and the FINAL SCORE WILL BE LA 35 SD 14.

And that could spell doom for the SD season, are they going to be man enough to bounce back from the first game loss or are they going to pack it in and call it a season after starting 0 and 1?

I do not think their coaches will allow that to happen, but it all comes down to their players, and I do not think their players have the right mind set after hearing the player I know talk.

knows all, you betray your envy of people with a little more than you by stating that mommas and daddies can't buy them championship and the 'pretty" spoiled rich/spoiled kid comment about being soft.

Too bad. Deal with it...Econ 101

Just an outsider looking in, but Los Altos is talking a lot of trash about San Dimas. It will be interesting to see this one play out. I saw SD last year, they're no push over like many of you are saying.

SaintsR4real
Your commment was
"This is why 80% of the time these blogs suck, because of the low-lifers like you bringing the kids down!"

SOME TIMES THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT?!
I am not do anything else but stating the facts. DO NOT GET ANGRY. I AM NOT A LOW LIFE. YOU DO NOT KNOW ME BUT I AM AWARE OF SD TRADITION.

AGAIN LA 35 SD 14

I sign one thing every time. you?

reality chick is that you?

DB-is that you?

blue and gold toliet water

Football Jones.....I'll have to disagree with a point you made about BA fielding the best "raw" athletes. That's clearly not the case. I know. I've coaches several of these players in grammar school. They were not very good athletes. Some were not even athletes to begin with. But once Bishop Amat got a hold of them they were inspired by the competition, the expectations, the speed, the "everything"!

This year BA has a player on their varsity roster that I coached and to see him today, when the whistle blows, do what he does- well it's remarkable. Whether it's Verti or whomever, BA plays football at another level. Day in and day out...from Day One.

Step up in competition starts at practice and not in the season schedule. Most schools don't have that level of internal competion before the season starts and certaainly don't have that level of competition during the season.

As far as BA "needing" to be the top dog in the SGV...well that's like saying Amarica "needs" to have the faster man in the world and the World Heavyweight "needs" to be an American. I don't see the connection.

While a rising tide lifts all boats...that only applies to those in the water....or in this case the teams that play Bishop Amat. But it was a clever line none the less...can I borrow that sometime?

Joe Amat can you maybe tell me what were the records of the teams that did play BA from the SGV----the week AFTER they played. That way we could review the effects of that Blue and Gold TIDE?

Always with the homework huh Joe?

KNOWS All...alias LA PARENT?

"LA is going to be twice SD size and they are going to be tougher then those..."

Are we (LA) fielding a team of SUMO-WRESTLERS?

Please, try to control your enthusiasm...save some for the game.

~Football Jones

Knows all (AKA LA PARENT)

You're full of s---.

Don't always beleive what your hear, and I would question your intergity in anything you write..

SD Coach!

Whitey

Yes, the Serra league, I admit my error!

And to all Amat faithful, I respect the school, its history and its legacy.

For me, it is a pure matter of demographics, not personal animosity. The SGV has seen its dynamic growth period come and go. There is no way La Puente and Hac. Hts. can compete with communities like these out here in the Inland Empire, (I live in Riverside now and have for 25 years).

When I moved here, Corona had about 35,000 people, today, over 100,000.

Teams like North, REV, Norco, Corona Centennial and others mimic the W. Covina Spartans, SH Huskies, Conq's,and Lancers of the mid 70's and early 80's.

South Orange county has seen equally competitive communities explode in athletic prowess over the last decade.

Pride goeth before a fall, but to see winning championships at less the the top echelons as somehow tainted, well, to my mind, defeats the entire purpose.

Personally, I have enjoyed equally, over the last 35 years, LA championship wins against St. Paul and Crespi back in the 70's, Esperanza in the 80's as well as against Charter Oak and Orange Lutheran in the last 8 years.

Amat 73,

I think LA vs. Amat would likely have gone Amat's way last year, especially after LA sustained injuries to its top three players. Prior to those injuries I think it would have been a toss up.

The previous year I would have to say that the team that gave El Dorado all it could handle in a tough semi-final game would have been a challenge for Amat.

Just for the record, it is my personal opinion that LA should play Amat every year before league. It would be entertaining and a great local test for LA.

However, no one from LA has ever approached me for my opinion on the matter or for me to schedule those games! LOL!

Knows All,

"If this is the case how can they even think they have a chance against LA. LA is going to be twice SD size and they are going to be tougher then those pretty spoiled mamas boys from SD. I got news for you boys your mamas and daddys can not buy you a championship you have to go earn it on your own and YOU BOYS ARE NOT TOUGH ENOUGH FROM WHAT I HEAR!!"

This is why 80% of the time these blogs suck, because of the low-lifers like you bringing the kids down!
Don't bother responding, I will not participate in cheap shots.

Football Jones,

As a parent of a talented athlete. I chose to pick public over private. The truth about it was plain economics. The times have changed kids are getting a better education at public schools without paying for a high priced tuition. I know many parents who have left Amat for greener pastures. These kids are talented and did start first string in the respected positions. This is not about the SGV but about the kids as individuals. If you feel Amat needs to be the one leading the charge for the entire SGV....That's your choice. My son and I are very happy with his situation.

With the cost of living rising. It looks like Amat the private school is losing on enrollment.

You can hire coaches or play D1 teams but your ot going to get kids in with just a few academic scholarships.

Sad times at AMAT.

San Dimas is soft and out of shape I know a player who plays for San Dimas and he said if and when they condition all they have to do is look a little tired and their coach will stop the conditioning. He said during 2 a days they hardly ran. He also said he knows he is out of shape but he believes he can play himself into shape and he thinks he can last a whole football game even though he knows he is not in the same shape he was in last year. Again my earlier point about living off of last years success.

SD is introuble already.

If this is the case how can they even think they have a chance against LA. LA is going to be twice SD size and they are going to be tougher then those pretty spoiled mamas boys from SD. I got news for you boys your mamas and daddys can not buy you a championship you have to go earn it on your own and YOU BOYS ARE NOT TOUGH ENOUGH FROM WHAT I HEAR!!

Let me re-state my prediction
LA 35 SD 14

BA versus SGV

People let’s face reality; BA has consistently fielded the most 'raw' talented teams in the SGV for the past 30 years.

Very few public schools today can match their talent on the field...South Hills, Maybe DR?

However, BA's problem is they don't seem to have quite ENOUGH talent to compete and win against other major PRIVATE programs...at least not recently.

For the past few years they've been stuck in a talent 'No Man's Land'; enough talent to beat-up on public schools in SGV, but not quite enough to compete successfully against PAC5..."Big fish in small pond"

We'll see how they fare this year with a whole new coaching staff.They definitely have the talent ...again.

It's in EVERYONES best interest that BA returns to prominence, it brings positive attention to SGV..."A Rising Tide Lifts All Boats"

Just An Observation...

~Football Jones

FYI: Saints have 15 starters coming back and they're bigger, stronger and smarter than ever. They're a team on and off the field and only have one common goal.
Bring it HOME Boys, bring it HOME!

If you feel more than others that Coaches are a high percentage of the Teams success? Than this is the team that the coaches will be evaluated, because the Boys will do what they need to do.

San Dimas High School Football RULES!!

13 more days baby, 13 more days!

Los Altos @ San Dimas, game of the week.

One game at a time....one game at a time.

Apples and Oranges,

Dude, you mixed more metaphors than a 24 month subscription to Car & Driver but you are right about one thing, winning an Inland Division championship will be w a a a a y tough this year, (unless you are from Corona or points East). That's one reason Glendora ought to be thrilled the Section moved the Sierra League over to the D5 Central.

Now all you have to worry about is scary D1 bound QB's from the Baseline League.

Well, I mean that and playing the Lakers.

win a championship

You forget CO and Glendora don't play in the same league or CIF division. Winning CIF championships in the INLAND Divison isn't quite as easy as what CO faces. It will be alittle different this year. But to say, Glendora should win a few CIF championships in the divison they had been in, is like betting on a game between the Tartan Basketball team against the Lakers. Past history already shows that CO wouldn't even get past Upland.

Apples and Oranges

amat is no longer a big program

If Amat isn't a big program anymore, where does that leave LA?

Amat may be on a rebuilding year for the league or division they compete in, but make no mistake, they're talented and could compete with alot of schools in the valley.

Just Wondering

I would have to agree with some of your thoughts. San Dimas usually isn’t favored when they play bigger schools that have bigger pool of talent.

But like last year, they weren't favored against Bonita and look what happened. They probably won't be favored this year against Bonita or LA, but that’s why the game is played on the field.

If you follow your coach’s interview, the kids have been together for three years now with varsity experience and positioned well for a CIF run. I don’t think they’ll lose much sleep over the LA game win or lose. League is what gets teams to playoffs!

What interesting about this team, is they have four good backs, QB and as you mentioned the talent lines up behind the fast and strong line.

been there
As soon as glendora has the success of charter oak then maybe they will get the pub. The chargers have won a few championships while Glendora had 1 or 2 good seasons. Pop a few titles then fred will cover them more

cong76 hit the nail on the head. Amat needs to lower itself because it can no longer beat the big boys. Just like the boys baseball team who won the girls championship. Los Altos has learned this and its the cockyness of amat program that causes them to play the good teams and get thier ass kicked. I am sure Amat 73 and Joe " I spin things my own way" Amat will try to explain that logic which will be in vain. Amat is no longer the big program it use to be. Once you Amat fans realize this the better off you will be.

conq 76,
First off I find it funny you do not include LA in the teams you say we should play. Still dodging us , but that is a different subject. Most of this is being judged on the past 2 years which by our standards were very bad. Let's see what the new staff and a few wins, which contrary to donkey boy's 3-7 or 1-9 beliefs, are going to happen will do for us.We have been competitive and missed the playoffs by a coin toss and some questionable calls by past coaches . Maybe we should drop down and win false titles but that would be the easy way but then again what would all of you say . Pink rings and bunk championships as is said in baseball. And the teams you mentioned check the records versus AMAT . Maybe your reasoning LA dropping down is the same reason they won't play AMAT . You know you just can't win that game so why try. Or as you put it you are just facing reality.

Whitey,

Thats the point, Amat seems content to allow itself to get "run over" year after year in the hope that somehow, it will ressurect itself too former glory. While LA has faced reality and competes at a level where they might actually win something.

So, if you feel it is "noble" for Amat to cling to past glory and allow itself to get "creamed" each week because "once upon a time", they were part of the elite, so be it. I see it as a "wee" bit pathetic to NOT face the realities of a new day and instead seek to compete against teams like Damien, Glendora and St.Francis where they might get into post season contention.

yes lets not count baldwin park out. u cant measure heart. and they won all last years games with heart. with coach Heggins at the helm the old Baldwin Park is back. you cant out hit them.

cong 76, it's the Serra league, open your eyes and see if you can google the last time the congs(rymes with donkeys) beat Amat in FB , whats their overalll record against Amat, 1 and 5 all in the DeSpain era too, when they played in a much higher divsion than Ganos era

Fred,

It does amaze me how little you think of schools like San Dimas and, especially, Glendora, who turned out to be one of the hotest teams in the Valley last season.

I'm sure we will see very little press again on the Tartans in the big tab while other teams, who play in a much easier league like Charter Oak, receive cover status.

LA folks...
No argument here. As a Bonia supporter, my favorite two teams are the Bear Cats and whoever is beating the snot out of San Dimas. HOWEVER... and it'a BIG HOWEVER, the Saints lost 5 starters and only 3 or them were impact players. They are returning 85% of their starting crew from last year. In contrast, LA lost nearly all of its front line impact guys. The good news is this... Despite loosing so many good players, Los Altos is a much larger school with a much larger pool of athletes. So, having said that, Los Altos should be able to beat San Dimas even when San Dimas is at their collective best. I watched a SD practice last week and they have a tremendous O-Line. The trick to stopping SD is stopping Nico Barbone. The trick to stopping Barbone is controlling their line - and that wouldn't be easy for any team in the SGV. But, for week one, I love the Bear Cats and Los Altos... Give um hell Conqs!

CONQS versus SAINTS ?

LA vs SD is a very interesting matchup for week -0-.

On one side we have SD: 9-2 in 2007 (2nd loss at hands of mighty *OAKS CHRISTIAN* in playoffs) back with their ALL-VALLEY running back.

On OUR side LA: football Pedigree, 2008 probably a rebuilding year with new head coach.

Prediction: LA will show up motivated, well coached, and they will BRING IT!!!

GO CONQS...

~Football Jones

Now I wouldn't go predicting on what LA's record will be. I also wouldn't be agreeing with anybody's record prediction is for LA.

I'll tell you this, Los Altos team will not be a pushover or what you guys want to chalk up already as a "W" on your calenders. You just don't go down your schedule and place "W's" on your win loss schedule.

Sure LA has lost players but doesn't everyone, LA WILL WIN games this year. I don't know how many. BuT...

Don't expect Los Altos to lay over and give anyone a Win.

LA is playing for a playoff spot this year like every year.

If you want to say you won your game against us, so be it. But on Friday of our game look at the score and ask your kids. "Does it hurt to lose or does hurt to play LA".

Well either way it's going to hurt!

GO CONQ's

Los Altos will pound San Dimas in the first game of the season. San Dimas was a one hit wonder. Everybody knows that SD is a basketball school, while LA is a FOOTBALL SCHOOL. San Dimas is preseason ranked #1 and that will only last 1 week. They are living off of last years accomplishments. I have heard practices are soft and so are their players!! Prediction LA 35 SD 14

LA Parent,
Oh... well there's a good objective source as to the prowess of a high school football program... the coaches and players. What do you expect them to say... "Yea, we're hoping for a middle of the pack finish this year. We lost a lot of starters and kinda lack a big play maker, but our kids have a lot of heart and that'll carry them a long way." You need to be more objective and less emotional. The fact is, Bonita is returning a lot more players and have at least four solid play-making D1 prospects on the team. They had a good season last year and by all (and I mean all) indications this year will be far better. Again, Los Altos has a great program year in and year out, but this will not be their year. Two years from now your rants will sound a lot less silly... but for now... I guess you'll just have to count yourself among the ranks of the idiots like I aparently must now do. Bear Cats rule!

I've talked to some of the players and coaches, I'm just repeating their words. Doubters keep doubting!!!!

leonidas

Like what? Give us a pre-view because the roster looks slim!

LA PARENT

It’s time for you to STOP talking. You’re becoming an embarrassment to our program.

How many teams in the SGV went 9-1 last year? You have made a real stupid comment.

It nice to believe in our kids but be a little more sensible when you post.

Whitey

I have no doubt that there are several SGV teams who could do just as poorly as Amat has done in recent years in the Sierra League!

Losing to all those quality schools does not make you a "Big time program", it makes you a, well, what is the opposite of winner? LOL!

Maybe LA Parent is dyslexic and meant to say LA will go 1-9!!

LA Parent,
I love your enthusiasm! It's almost like reality has no place in any equation in your mind! "LA will beat everyone. San Dimas, Bonita, the New England Patiots, just have them there and we'll beat em!" The school is lucky to have such a blind supporter! I love Los Altos High School and their programs. The history of the school truely speaks for itself - but at some point the rest of the SGV says "this guy must be nuts to think LA will beat San Dimas, Bonita, or anyone else hands down". I know one thing, LA needs to hire you to wear their Conquistadors mascot outfit. Because you don't care a lick about reality and you'd be jumping all over the place, regardless of the score! Rock on Bear Cats!

hey fred

please keep ignoring ghs, your gonna wake up in six weeks and say to yourself, self, i should have went to a few practices of one of the best teams in the valley, never to late too get on the ghs bandwagon, ghs goes 9-3 and shocks the world!

LA PARENT,

"I've seen a few of our practices, and I have no doubt we go into the playoffs 9-1, or 8-2"

Do you know how stupid that sounds ???

~Football Jones

LA Parent

A $1000. in Fred hands holding it until end of season says LA doesn't go 9-1.

Dude you're on crack!!

LA Parent

Keep dreaming! See you soon and better get ready to defense our offensive attack.

No playmakers for LA. NADA!

to ACAMPA-i follow hs football very well-i live in whititer-iv followed the league longer than u have-im sure-there is no way you can even compare the del rio to the other leagues-the whittier are hs programs are weak-let me ask you-when was the last time anyone in the league won CIF-try never-santa fe finds a way to choke in the playoffs every year-i know you are a writer for the paper-but you should really tryto research it before you say that--the SAN ANTONIO and MIRAMONTE are much stronger leagues-when you have schools like LOS ALTOS/CHARTER OAK AND SOUTH HILLS--they are much tougher than any del rio school-again i live in whititer so i do know what im talking about.

Hey Football Jones,

Why are you kissing other teams as*es on here? LA will beat SD, and Bonita. Have some Pride!

loveshsfootball,

You don't follow the Del Rio League that well if you think it's one of the weakest leagues in the CIF.

Sleeper team in Walnut? You got that right they will be asleep on Friday nites. They are horrible. I mean horrible.

Just Wondering,

As an LA supporter, I think San Dimas has a good team and LA will be challenged to contain NICO. If not, it's going to be a long night for LA.

Bonita & SD both have good programs.

~Football Jones

ok i have a question-in your league rankings you have the Del Rio league ranked 67th in the state>???-way above leagues like the San Antonio and Pacific??-i gotta tell you-i follow the Del Rio closely and there is no way it should be ranked above thiose leagues-you need to doublecheck that because the Del Rio is one of the weakest leagues in the CIF.

New/Old spartans are coming!?

LA Parent,
Aparently I am an idiot! However, San Dimas will stomp LA in their opener. Easy call.

love how damien is flying under the radar, big things comming out of sparta this year.

Just Wondering,

You are an idiot!! To even think that San Dimas is even in the conversation with teams like SH, BA, CO, DR, and LA is flat out stupid.

Well, the comment did come from a Bonita backer, so I guess I understand!

Hey Fred, I've seen a few of our practices, and I have no doubt we go into the playoffs 9-1, or 8-2. We look great!!! You have to come down and see for yourself.

Serra League #2...rings a bell, yes it's where the only big time SGV program plays, Amat......everbody else is in the minors, some looking to crawl their way to the top, others content to be a smaller fish in a small pond!

FJR,

I'm with you! My bodies been on Beijing time for a couple weeks and it's killing me!

New/Old Past/Future High School Rival(Whatever way you look at it):
no more WC vs Southills it will be
West Covina vs. Edgewood; Will be very exciting!

Fred,

I would love to see WCHS go back to those dark blue, light blue and white (spartan) colors of the past. Then only changed when they blended the two schools as you may know to lessen the tension.

I never liked the new colors, but perhaps some do.

J

told you guys that jacob shirley was going to transfer to south hills to play baseball over there...well hope he does good and thanks for all your work at WestCovina. also ive heard many students from nogales and bishop amat have transferred to West Covina just to play football? is this true at all? on other news, edgewood middle school will be turning into a high school because west covina unified school district just opened up a middle school near edgewood, which gives us a big hint! what i'm wondering is how they'll separate the students of West Covina High School to Edgewood? and would this mean that high schools near edgewood, are they going to also transfer students? Would this also mean Edgewood alumni Mike Maggiore will be transferring to Edgewood? This topic brings a lot of questions needing to be answered....

I understand. Rock on Bear Cats!

I assume you're wondering why no mention of San Dimas for consideration of the No. 1 spot, right? Well, because there's a big difference between who's ranked No. 1 in Mid-Valley and who's No. 1 in Southeast? The Southeast is sort of the San Gabriel Valle "A" Division while the Mid-Valley is the SGV "B" Division. The Saints are good, not just at that elite level yet. But certainly, they're favored to win the VVL and Mid-Valley, won't get an argument about that.

Fred,
Just wondering, where is San Dimas? Why no mention of the team that CalPreps puts #1 over many of the rest? I watched them (even though I'm a Bonita fan) and they looked strong. Barbone is a tremendous runner and their line play in front of their backs looks really good. They will still get it handed to them in the Smug Pot. But I can't imagine why you haven't even mentioned them in this post. Just Wondering?