King rates area's best hoops players ever?
This story comes from longtime staffer Jim McConnell, the man we call, "The King" around the office. He writes a weekly Then & Now column. This week he writes about his history lesson from readers, and what winning a 4-A title once meant.
Robledo: "Murray was the best I've ever seen."
The area's best high school basketball player ever?
In this reporter's opinion -- there's no way of knowing.
Basketball has been played at Southern California high schools for more than 100 years. But what exactly was it they were playing? The differences between how the game was played in the 1920s, in the 1940s, in the 1960s and today are so marked that comparing players of one era to those of another is meaningless.
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Among area schools, Whittier High was the early pace-setter. In fact, the Cardinals won the very first CIF-Southern Section playoff ever held, in 1915. Under coach John Wilson, the Cards beat Covina 38-32 in the 1915 CIF-SS finale, held at Manuel Arts High in L.A.
Whittier also won CIF-SS titles in 1916 and 1917. For good measure, it won the CIF State title in 1916, beating Berkeley High.
The late John Arrambide, a star athlete at Whittier High in the early 1930s and a member of the Cardinals' 1931 CIF-SS championship team, explained the school's success in basketball in a 1999 interview.
"A couple of churches in town had youth leagues going, as well as the local YMCA," Arrambide said. "My high school coach, Don Douglas, also taught the sport to kids in the grade schools. So kids were playing basketball from an early age.
"At most schools, basketball was an after-thought, just something for athletes to do to stay in shape between the football and baseball seasons. But at Whittier High they took their basketball seriously.
"The thing was, the sport was really something new back then," Arrambide said. "Shoot, Naismith had only invented it a few years before. Most high schools didn't even have a gym, or a building on campus with a ceiling high enough to hang the baskets. A lot of our games were played on outdoor courts."
Interestingly, Whittier won the 1916 CIF-SS basketball title by routing Citrus High, 40-19. It would be another 18 years before a team again reached the 40-point level in a CIF-SS title game.
"Oh, it was not unusual to have scores of 10-8 or 13-10," Arrambide said. "Back then, a 50-point game was virtually unheard of, like a 100-point game in today's high school basketball.
"The low scores were not surprising, once you realize how the sport was played and what it was played with. The ball back then was slightly larger than the one we use now. It was an inflated rubber blatter covered by leather. The leather was very slick, and got slicker as the game progressed and the ball got wet with sweat. It was hard to handle, let alone shoot.
"The ball didn't have anywhere near as much bounce as the one today, and the officials strictly enforced traveling and carrying-over. So you couldn't go very fast with the dribble. The courts were also very rough, all kinds of dead spots and uneven spots. You dribbled upcourt at your own risk.
"And the rims weren't standardized, so you rarely got a true bounce on a rebound. Most of the time, you passed the ball. And passed the ball. And passed the ball. Just waiting for an opening to go in for a layup. Very dull stuff, compared to today.
"Of course, there was no shot clock and no defensive pressure rule, so you literally could pass the ball all game long. I remember we once won a game 5-3. All the points were on free throws, nobody made a basket.
"The thing was, no one really thought of it as an offensive game. Positioning and passing were the keys. That was basketball in 1930."
Fittingly, Whittier High also had the very first CIF-SS Basketball Player of the Year, Stuart Lewis in 1938.
In the pre-1960 era, other locals who earned CIF Player of the Year honors include Irv Noren (Pasadena) in 1942, Hugh Stewart (South Pasadena) in 1946, Bob Johnson (Whittier) in 1948, Wayne Kopren (Whittier) in 1949, Mark Costello (El Monte) in 1950, Ron Bane (Alhambra) in 1951, Fred Crabtree (Covina) in 1955, Jerry Pimm (Montebello) in 1956, George Van Vliet (Whittier) in 1957, Bill Kilmer (Citrus) in 1958 and Bob Sommers (San Marino) in 1959.
As mentioned, it is very difficult to rate players from different eras. But you probably wouldn't be far off the mark if you pick Muir Tech's Jackie Robinson as the area's top player of the 1930s, Pasadena's Noren as the top player of the 1940s and Citrus' Kilmer as the top player of the 1950s.
That trio demonstrates that athleticism has been the one consistent trait in a great player, from any era.
However, enough evasion. Facing a full-court press from readers, this columnist would select Glendora High's Tracy Murray as the best high school basketball player he has seen. How 'bout you?
jim.mcconnell@sgvn.com
(626) 962-8811, Ext. 2383
Comments
Don Carfino or Wulfmeyer? Who had a better stroke?
Both played at USC.
Wufmeyer. Brad Hollins and a few other pure shppters were around in those days WITHOUT the 3point line.
Posted by: USC BB | January 14, 2009 2:25 PM
I have to agree with Fred. Mark Wulfmeyer was the best HS player ever. I was in elementary school when he played. My father was assistant principal at Troy and he would take us to all their games. I remember the Wulfmeyer would take the ball down court and swish it every time. He was just so smooth -- reminded me a lot of Jerry West.
Posted by: Alec | January 13, 2009 11:13 PM
Henry Lara is the best gunner Ive seen come out of central city.
Posted by: jose | January 10, 2009 4:29 PM
Hey Freddy,
Speaking of those Lear/Hendrick battles our boy Jimmy Barrero was on one of those short-short wearin' teams.
I haven't seen any of his stuff in the LA Times lately-know what he's up to?
Posted by: Joe Amat | January 7, 2009 1:10 PM
The retired "Chavez" is girl's basketball player Kelly Chavez from the late 90s. She is Kathy (Salter-Chavez) Wiard's daughetr and Coach Wiards step daughter. She was a REALLY good ballhandler and passer.
Someone asked before about HOF criteria (whitey?) and I thought there was a decision at some point to only retire CIF Players of the Year, and she was ALL CIF a couple years, but never POY, and I think the first girls title was after she was gone. Like I said - she was really good, but...
well, I'm sure no one had any pull or exerted any preferential treatment to "bend" those rules (nod.nod.wink*wink*)
BTW,
to the Brian Hendrick fan - Geoff Lear did outplay him two consecutive years in some epic battles in the finals of the Covina Tourney.
Posted by: Joe Amat | January 7, 2009 1:05 PM
Who's retired Basketball Jersey is "Chavez" hanging in the Bishop Amat Hall of fame.
Posted by: ??? | January 7, 2009 10:25 AM
Hot Corner,
Correct up to the end. Marinovich and Capo Valley lost in Overtime to Simi Valley and the MVP was Don McLean, who was probably the game MVP , sending the game into OT with free throws... although Toddy M played great
Posted by: Joe Amat | January 7, 2009 8:32 AM
DB FAN;
Jeff Lear was the centers name.They also had Big Mike Conness and the Lamb twins.They went all the way to The Sports Arena and lost to rival Mater Dei(whom they beat twice earlier in the year).I remember watching the 4A game before us.Kid named Todd Marinovich was MVP,Capo Valley won that game easily.
Posted by: Coaches Corner | January 7, 2009 8:12 AM
Here are the best players I have seen in the SGV play.
1.Keith Van Horn F all american Utah,NBA player with career scoring average 17ppg. Retired early to spend time with his family.
2. Scott Williams C HH Wilson a great player played at UNC and in the NBA.
3. Brian Hendrick C 4 year starter at Diamond Bar and Cal an NBA career ended with a knee injury senior year that did not improved with surgery. All pac 10 4 years at Cal.
4. Tracy Murray F a typical gunner in the Glendora way of featuring one scorer.
5. Mike Smith C Los Altos now Clipper broadcaster
6. Casey Jacobson G another Glendora gunner
7. Shomario Richard Nogales g who was a great high school player. I never did see Cecil Fielder play.
8. West Covina had a good G who played at the same time as KVH
9. Bishop Amat had Stephon Pace and a big center who were very good.
Posted by: DBfan | January 6, 2009 8:52 PM
Jeff Cook the best? I don't know about that, but I'll say Mike Powell was the best track and field athlete! Easily!
Posted by: whitey | January 6, 2009 4:33 PM
checking in did you play along side duffy? i heard he was a better person than he was a basketball player. great guy and actually comes to a few alumni thanksgiving events, or so i'm told
Posted by: duffy made cif? | January 6, 2009 3:51 PM
Any conversation about the best basketball player in the SGV would have to include Bill Duffy, Damien HS, 1977.
Duff was a superb athlete, and a tremendous basketball player who made everyone he played with better. An All-CIF performer back in the day when Damien wasn't too much of a basketball school--was it ever?
Posted by: Checkingin | January 6, 2009 3:32 PM
Jason Kid played @ a park in Glendora off of Grand . A number of times I remember seeing him & the Murrays.Also along with them were numerous BALLERS!Back then all I had to do was play hoops & get girls. Live Oak Park in TC was another hot spot for me , and Granada Gym in Alhambra.It was back in the 240-250 range . Now that I am a ROBUST 300+pounder,those days are over.
Fight On
TM
TM
Posted by: Trojan Man | January 6, 2009 2:19 PM
Jason Kidd was playing Basketball at glendora? Trojan Man,,,details?
Posted by: TrojanManWasABasketballPlayer | January 6, 2009 1:07 PM
Hey Powell I remember playing against you in Glendora @ a few different places . Jason Kidd came out a few times too ! Remember the Early 90's, I DO!I had game , now all I have are bad knees & a gut !
TM
Posted by: Trojan Man | January 6, 2009 12:34 PM
RHS had a BAD WHITE BOY while I went there , a guy named Mike McDonald, NOT THE BEST ALL TIME , but a DAMN ggod player. Back then the MVL was very competitive , Duarte, El Monte, Mountaun View TOO !All were pretty good teams all things considered.
Fight On
TM
Posted by: Trojan Man | January 6, 2009 12:32 PM
Jeff Cook Edgewood H.S.
NBA Player
Posted by: Mike Powell | January 6, 2009 11:49 AM
No doubt about it, Tracy Murray is #1, with his brother Cameron in the top 10. Tracy put Glendora & Coach LeDuc on the national basketball map. He scored 64 of of his teams 80 points in the State Finals in Oakland while also dominating the boards.
I'm not even a Glendora fan but I have to give him his props!
Posted by: no doubt about it | January 6, 2009 10:35 AM
Can you say, Keith Van Horn from Diamond Bar High School! NBA Baby!
Posted by: purple & Gold | January 6, 2009 10:05 AM
How about Donald Carfino from St. John Bosco? Went on to play at USC during the Ronny Lott years.
Anyone ever seen him play?
Heard he could light it up.
Posted by: SJB player | January 6, 2009 9:56 AM
Fred
You have to back a bit but the best basketball player in california ever to this day was Mark Wulfmeyer from Troy HS in Fullerton.End of story.
Posted by: sgvbasketballfan | January 6, 2009 9:43 AM
I vote for Willie Trimble. The show he put on at teh SGV=Pasadena All Star game is legendary. The dunks, the 3s, the defensive steals and the offensive moves he put on that night were special.
The guard from Colony took him on the first play of the game and after that Willie just made him regret the night.
Never seen that ego maniac pair of Murry bothers but as far as i've personally seen I'd have to go with Trimble.
Anyone who was there for Upland's game against King At Upland's gym will tell you he was dynamic!
Where ever you are Willie it was an honor to see you play. After teh All Star game I almost did something I've never done...ask for an autograph. Instead I just shook my head in disbelief and was happy to have seen him play.
Posted by: Wilie Trimble Fan | January 6, 2009 9:32 AM
Wayne Englestad (sorry about the spelling) is the best to have ever played in the SGV.
Posted by: Go Tech | January 6, 2009 8:46 AM