Calvary Murrieta softball forfeits game because of illegal batting practice, what a shame

I go to Calvary, and I walked by the softball field right before the game started. I saw The Barstow teamthrowing wiffle balls to their batters (definately forward motion throws). I don't play softball, so I didn't know it was against the rules, and I didn't think anthing of it. The next day at school, I noticed that the softball players were missing fom my class. I went outside and saw all of them bawling their eyes out. I come to find out that they were disqualified for batting practice the day of the game. I let them know I saw the other team doing the same thing as them, only I didn't take pictures like their devious coach did. I talked around to some peple, and I was informed that the Barstow coach mentioned it to one of the umpires, but not to Coach Bliel. The umpire just told him to let them play. Coach Bliel had no idea what she was doing was wrong. It was then that the Barstow coach took pictures. He turned them in after their 4-0 loss. The man in charge of the CIF playoffs or whatever asked the Barstow coach "Do you really want to do this?" apparently he did want to ruin the dreams of a softball team on which half the girls were seniors and another quarter were going to a different school the next year. The Barstow coach was asked if he had batting practice too, but of course he denied, even though me, and a few of my friends, witnessed them doing the same.

Now the rule says that they MAY be disqualified. What they basically mean is that if a few players on your team have batting practice, they may be asked to sit out of the game, but since the entire team was photographed, the entire team was disqualified.

I don't mind the rule, and I think the punishment is fair, but the way it hapened was totally unsportsmanlike. the Barstow coach should have told Coach Bliel what she was doing was against CIF playoffs rules, and she would have definately stopped. Unfortunately, the coach didn't want to set a good example for his girls, so he went about it in the worst way possible, shattering the aspirations of 14 deserving young girls.

as horribly unfortunate as this is for the girls who worked so hard all year to be the top seed, i absolutely agree there is no one to blame but the coach of murrieta and the schools athletic department. their ignorance and laziness cost these talented ladies the "glory days" they deserved and worked so hard to achieve. completely unacceptable.

Joey that was nice. I still am amazed what kids will do when they are given a chance. The boy how hit all those three is my all time favorite. What was remarkable was the catcher pointing to first base.

In life sometimes all we need to do is push things gently in the right direction and let the best in us take over.

I've said it many times to my teams, my kids and this blog...

"The scoreboard has nothing to do with winning or losing...it only documents the points scored in a given time period. How you play and how you conduct yourself in competition will determine whether you're a winner or a loser."

Maybe after seeing this video people will understand what I mean.

One of my players asked me once..."Coach then why do they keep score?"

I told him..."So people who don't play the game can have something to brag about!!!"

bring the trek,we'll dine at the warehouse, on me Whitey.................

Steve,

I do agree with you that the rule is in place (good or bad... and I think good) and needs to be enforced (as I wrote a couple times earlier) But I did get sidetracked by My Friends feel good story and it's a shame we don't hear about more of those. So I shared a couple.

What also intended to post in response to Fred writing, "...a good legal argument..." is that it is precisely the way that CIF enforces rules. Rules are there and written the way they are for a reason. Most of the time they are enforced by "What would hold up in a court of law" How many suits and restraining orders do we hear about in HS sports today? the age-old adage of follow the money to find out why a decision was made is true quite often.

This rule is written with a "little wiggle room" (may forfeit) in case a lone girl decided to do it on her own or something... instead of a mass drill organized by the coach. But as you and I said - a violation occurred and you can't "undo it" That's why I think had Barstow done what Fred suggested and refused to advance - CIF may have just let neither team advance... because a rule was broken.

I do find it interesting that in some sports, *honor* is the accepted practice. Individual sports for sure. Golf, Tennis... you're on your honor. but I've seen tons of volleyball coaches "deny" points (as Roddick did) when the chair umpire did not see "a touch". When I asked a coach one time the reply was, "how would we feel if we won by one point - knowing we didn't deserve it". And that practice happens quite often in volleyball. I just wonder why? And why not elsewhere? I couldn't have imagined saying,"No, that wasn't pass interference - we'll take the incomplete!" or "sorry ref - we charged... we won't shoot those free throws after all!" Some sports - yes... others no? Interesting discussion at the very least. Makes me think...

I'm also reminded of the college softball girls that carried an injured opponent around the bases? We blogged about that back then. Here's the last feel good story of the day- make sure to watch the video
http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_12334533

Again, my point would be that this is a rules violaton, no different than if team scored the winning runs off a hit by a batter who batted out of order. The difference here is that it happened before the game. The reason why 'Coach A' can't simply walk up to the 'Coach B' and say, 'That's against the rules and you should stop,' is because if the batting practice has already started, the situation has already been corrupted by those hitters who have already had batting practice, thus having an unfair advantage. The only fair thing would be to reschedule the game to another day. But is that fair to the team that abided by the rules? I say no, and I guess CIF-SS does, too. You can talk about sportsmanship, but how many rules are you going to overlook. Batting out of order is an 'innocent' mistake, but most wouldn't look down on a coach who called another coach on it. I can remember when I first started in this business when Walnut was in the softball quarterfinals. They scored a run in the 10th inning to go up against top-seeded Quartz Hill, but the Walnut coach forgot she had run for her pitcher twice (this was before the courtesy runner rule), and when the coach tried to insert her back in the game, was told she couldn't, per the rules. Walnut was forced to use one of its position players, who had some pitching experience. She proceeded to walk several batters, the last one which forced in the winning run. I guess the "sportsman" thing to do would have been for the other coach to say, 'Forget about it, just let her back in the game.' Rules are rules and it demeans the game not to enforce them.

That might have made for an amazing story had Barstow reused to advance. I do wonder how all the girls *really* feel - knowing they advanced after a loss. IN 2005 Andy Roddick denied himself a point awarded by an incorrect Umpires call that would have given him the championship... instead his opponent came back to win. Frank Deford speaks about it on NPR here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4647602
It's worth listening to.

Something remarkable happened locally in March. In an AYSO tournament Bernadette Arizmendi, and her team, the Cypress Cyclones Girls’ U10 coach, lost in the finals to the Huntington Park American Eagles,coached by Maria Espinoza, to see which team would represent the Section in the U10 girls division in Davis. However, the Eagles knew from the beginning that even if they won the game, they weren’t going to be able to make the trip due to financial constraints.

As the second place team, the Cyclones would go in their place. Instead of preparing her team to attend the championship, Arizmendi decided to raise money to help the Eagles make the trip they deserved. The Cyclones were able to raise about $300 before KIIS-FM and American Idol host Ryan Seacrest stepped in. Listen to the story on KISS-FM. You'll be glad you did.
http://tinyurl.com/r2w72u

This is really what Sports is all about. These days some would call these people *foolish* for not taking advantage of the opportunity to "win" and advance. But, as Deford says at the end of his piece, people used to call these people *sportsmen*!

Unfortunately, had Barstow refused to advance, I could see CIF simply vacating that round and not advancing CCM anyway (because after all-they violated a clear-cut rule), and allowing the next opponent to advance with a bye. That's kinda the way they do things.

and BTW, Great example on the Chaffey/Salesian story.

Fred I'm not sure if you're not adding to the problem. I'm a big fan of yours but look at it this way for a second. Are we not "demonizing" the innocent with more innocents. (Demonizing is a strong word but you get the point)

In your scenario the coach is innocent and the other coach is the "demon".
The "inexperienced" coach is innocent and CIF is the demon.
The complexity of the rule creates an innocent mistake and the Rules Committee Board are the Demons not willing to overlook an honest mistake.

When that fails the "innocent" losing team become "demons" by accepting to go on "that" way when in fact they lost...how dare they!
When all else fails blame the "innocent' coach for his lack of "sportsmanship", his lack of "decency" and his inability to "help" the "inexperienced" coach...I mean teh inexpereience d coach must have had inexperienced assistants, inexperienced fans, and an inexperienced Athletic Director as well....wow the "innocent" coach really has no heart after al considering the complete lack of experience clearly obvious to everyone but this "mean spirited" coach.

It's always okay to look at a situation and ask..."Is this fair?" but I doubt anyone would want the "innocent team" to send a letter to CIF "refusing" to move forward in the playoffs. I could see it now Fred....

News Flash!!!

Ousted Team Refuses To Accept CIF Decision To Move On

Wouldn't that be a story Fred ? Fred you're asking too much of everyone but the inexperienced coach and this team.

Salesian beat a Chaffey team once in Triple OT after Penalty kicks during the playoffs. One of teh happiest days in Salesian Soccer history up to that time. THe next day CIF informed teh school, after Chaffey protested, that the thrid round of Penalty kick weer sudden death rather than best of 5.....we lost...end of story. Fair is fair...they moved on. Yes it hurt but we all figured...they won....didin't change the great feeling at the time.

No one said CIF screwed us, no one said Chaffey didn't deserve to move on...we just figured the Refs blew it...that's all.

Joe Amat, that would make a great legal argument, you win my vote if I'm on the jury. You said coaching matters, well it matters if you're a coach witness to this, and what your reaction is to it. For me personally, I'm not interested in winning that way, and knowing the punishment is so severe, I would approach the opposing coach and ask if they're aware of the rule. That coaches reaction determines what I do next. If someone explained they were a first year coach, and appeared surprised by the question, I think I would give the benefit of the doubt, and use my best judgment. Again Joe, this is about the players, this is their moment, and its a moment they never get back if they're seniors. I know there are many other scenarios, an umpire spotting and turning a team in for it, or a fan or administrator tipping off CIF, but I'm talking about the scenario I explained. I think there are ways you can handle it if you think in the best interest of the players.

What's wrong with the coach saying "I BLEW IT!!' and serve as a cautionary tale rather than a run of the mill whiner...which is what he is.

End of discussion for me...'sorry' if you disagree or have another salient point to make...I'm done.

whitey

if you're still interested in the bike let me know...maybe you can pick it up at the Damien game on Tuesday. I'll have my son drop it off for me. My knees are shot, especially the left one, so you can have it for free. Hope your legs are doing better. it's a Specialized HardRock. I'd rather have some one use it than sit in my garage and remind me that I can't ride anymore. ...and I love riding.

Going to take up Harley's now. I just like the freedom and the speed of two wheels. Let me know. Hope your kids are doing fine.

Maybe during the game you can tell me a little bit about why baseball is so special...lol.

Where house sounds great...you're on!

King Stud,
Tuck rule is a good rule. That's why it still is in existance. In fact, saved the Cowboys a touchdown last season.

Joe Amat is correct ( and I wont state that often) that it's a bad rule but still has to be enforced. Reminds me of the tuck rule when the Raiders got screwed in a playoff game a few years back against the Pats. A bad rule but it had to be enforced at that time.
Frank what does Pete Rose have to do with this? Who said anyone was cheating at this game? So you have never bent the rules in your favor frankie? Come on now. Everyone bends the rules a little. Does it make it right? No, but anyone who says they do the right thing all the time is a liar.
Sounds like an honest mistake was made and because of the bad rule they got screwed. But Joe is right this all falls on the coach. If anyone is to be pissed it should be directed at him. He is the one responsible for letting the kids know the rules and if he doesn't know the rules he should take the time to learn. Someone should petition CIF to change and or modify this rule. Someone get Thom Simmons on the phone.

hey frank C....joe amat made a rhetorical reference to someone being picked up at the airport in a porsche? of course he must mean your black carrera, right!.lets hook up at the wherehouse b4 the AMAT-Damien game in october

First off with Rose ...he "cheated" Baseball with his Gambling which if you gamblers, and I do, they are self identified degenerates. "nuff said! He didn't "take up gambling" after his playing days and therefore it stands to reason he bet all thru his career. Then, to compound his "cheating", he "cheated" Baseball as an institution when he dragged Giamati thru the mud accusing him of all sorts of nefarious deeds when the "only" guilty party was Rose himself.

The rule is important enough for all MJB clubs and minor league teams to post in their locker room and this "discussed" rule is important enoiugh to send to all the playoff high schools...so there's that.

Tough going but anyone who takes the position that they gor screwed by the system and then relays that to the players,parents and fans does everyone a disservice.

Gotta go.

Anders, if you have ever coached softball you should know that if you take away those two runs from the beginning of the game, the whole out come could of changed, it could have easily been 2-0 in favor of Barstow at the end of the game. Your whole thinking changes when your losing, when your winning, and when it's tied. You may take chances that you may not take when your winning, and you might take chances you may not take if the score is close. You take away those two runs and you might opt to walk a batter, you might opt to shift your infield instead of playing straight up, you may opt to try to steal a base, you may opt to hit and run. Your argument doesn't hold water! The best thing that could have been done in this situation, would have been to play the game over and let Barstow host the game. But that would have taken time and money and not everyone is willing to give up both. I feel bad for the Murrieta girls since it was no fault of their own, but you can't blame the Barstow coach for pointing it out. The Murrieta coach only got caught throwing wiffle balls for batting practice, but if she had done this who knows what else she had done before the game, they may have had full on batting practice during the day before the game. The bottom line is you can't blame CIF, and you can't blame the Barstow coach. It's all on the shoulders of the Murrieta coach. Obviously the Barstow coach knew the rule, the Murrieta coach should have known, and if not her, somebody there should have been smart enough to know it was a rule. Even if it were just a parent standing by watching.

JJ (!:?)

We've established that it might not be the best rule... but it exists to because it is the CIF's intention to make playoffs equitable, with as few advantages as possible that are under their control. You see they don't "control" the regular season in any way - leagues do. So in the playoffs... CIF buckles down.

The rule was put in place because home playoff teams would have an unfair advantage if they were allowed take batting practice prior to the game with the other team traveling a long distance. It’s cut and dry, Although the rules says ‘might forfeit’, there’s no other option. There is no other compromise.

I love it when people try to blow analagies(sic) out of the water with arguments that can be blown out of the water.

Rules (and laws) are put in place and written in such a way that they are enforceable. And they are written to cover as many situations as possible. ie: Wiffle balls but not hardballs (or softballs)? How about reduced impact rubber balls? Pitched from a mound? In front of the mound? Tossed from in front? Can you be in the cage? With a machine? a little "hitting streak"? Live pitching? Where do you draw the line? CIF has chosen "...on a knee and to the side of the batter. The ball should be lifted, not pitched, to the batter...." SPELLED OUT on the FIRST page of their Playoff Bulletin... in large type.

Yes, if I speed in the ill-conceived 25mph zone I get a ticket... I don't go to jail. I'm assuming you're referring to the punishment (or forfieture) not fitting the crime (hitting a few wiffle balls). However, how else do you enforce it? Let's say Team A (Bishop Amat) travels 4 hours to Team B (let's say Morro Bay) They arrive to find Morro Bay in the cages or having batting practice. How do you put THAT genie back in the bottle, or "un-ring" that bell? You can't what is done is done - and the advantage (if there is one) has already been gained. It CAN'T be undone. So where is the "hammer" What are the consequences? It would be like a policeman chasing a criminal without a gun... "STOP... or.... I'll tell you to stop again!!!" THAT just doesn't work.

You like stories - here's one about "where do you draw the line. I've dealt with NCAA rules too. They are crazier than CIF by miles. Some conferences have rule prohibiting providing any transportation on school visits (some official and others unofficial) I thought that was a stupid rule... the local airport is so close, why can't we just go pick the poor kid up? But it was explained to me... who determines "close"? Could I pick him up in Ontario? Orange County? LAX? Santa Barbara? Where does it end? Why can't I pick him up in the school van? What if someone wanted to pick him up in a Hummer?... or their nice black Porsche?... or a Limo? Where do you draw the line? Do you think an advantage can be gained?

So instead... NO transportation... as dumb as that might be it's easier to say, "NO, none at all... than it is to try to define circumstances that are ok, and when to let them "get way with a warning"... when to "write the ticket".. and when to "throw away the key"!

I feel bad for Murrietta. But I feel bad that a coach let them down. Coaching Matters. ALWAYS.

Two of the runs were scored in the beginning of the game. The other two were scored at the end of the game. All the girls had seen the pitchers by this point and had there turn at bat. Punish them by taking away the early runs. Same out come.
We were on the traveling end before. Five hours in a bus to get to a semi final playoff game. We had fifteen minutes to warm up. The girls took care of business and went home with a win. The better team won!
We are not talking recruiting, over aged players, corked bats or spitballs.
It would be interesting to know if all the girls participated in batting practice and if not were they involved in the scoring.

Frank C
how did Rose cheat?

there should be no batting practice allowed at any game, it is a waste of time and money,travel ball teams started this about 30 years ago, then h.s. teams, i know i was both,and never used soft toss wiffles or anything before games, it"s there because so many coaches think there big time , like the pro"s and there not, it is not needed at all. you dont learn a thing during this time.

A lot of comments here with most of them being good. Some of them are way out there. The comment about a national championship game being decided by 5th down never happened. Diamond Bar beat Upland on a 5th down in a CIF championship game 10 years ago on a officiating mistake that never should have happened at this level.
Regardless if we like it or nor rules are put in place either to prevent something from happening or because something happened previously. Obviously it was felt that it was an advantage to ave bp before a game.
Each league and school is represented on CIF committees. If you don't like the rule change it but until then everyone has to abide by them. Softball is generally dominated by pitching and if a pitcher is coming off of a long bus ride and faces fresh hitters that just had bp this is a big advantage.
Anyone remember the Arcadia baseball coach who was ejected in a playoff game and was not allowed to coach his team in the next game? He was caught observing the next game from the outfield and they had to forfeit that win and were eliminated from the playoffs. He is gone but the program still struggles in the playoffs. Sometimes these things are devastating.
There is a lot of responsibility here to go around bu don't blame the Barstow coach for bringing it to light.

Joey,

It is a rule...that states MAY result in forfeiture. Its a rule which make zero sense! For your one instance where a team ended up in forfeiture i can show you countless times where this was rule was not enforced. La Salle vs Calvary Murrieta to name one where Calvary lost the game 1 to 0. No for forfeiture ruled.

I love it when people make analagies that I can blow out of the water. So lets go there. If you do go over the 25mph speed limit should they take you to jail, lock you up and not give you back your keys until next year.

All I am asking is that CIF get a clue and make the punishment worth the crime. Yes the head coach needs to know the rules. But did she deserve to have her team removed from the playoffs for this slight lack of knowledge.

That was a good try though!

JJ,

This falls on NOBODY'S shoulders except the Calvary Head Coach. Period! There is NO ONE else to lay blame on. *It could not have been more clear!* It's been enforced before. In 2003, the Valley View (Moreno Valley) baseball team was allowed back in the playoffs after Lakewood was ruled to have taken illegal batting practice before a second-round game. Valley View advanced to the Division 1 title game.

There are plenty of streets that I travel that have a 25mph speed limit. It is extremely difficult to stay at 25... few people honor 25... it might even be dumb that it is 25... but if I got pulled over I certainly couldn't use any of those excuses to get out of that ticket.

This isn't a rule that was made up to punish Calvary or "ruin 14 girls lives" (are we going overboard a bit?) It is a rule for EVERYBODY - good rule or not.

Listen... not all of the lessons that are learned in sports are rainbows and unicorns. Some of the most important lessons are difficult ones that come from trying circumstances. In this case, I bet there are 14 girls that are going to be extra diligent in following rules for a long time.

OR.... we can continue to let them believe they were picked on, singled out, and persecuted in which case they'll develop a whole different set of norms.

Which one do you want YOUR kid to learn ?!?

Lets get the facts straight. The Calvary team threw forward motion whiffle balls at their kids. If this constitutes Batting Practice I ask you to come back and redefine the game. Its plain chicken all the way around. Barstow coach I ask you had this happened to you wouldn't you have wanted the Calvary Coach to come over and say to you that you can't do that in the playoffs; before finding a technicality issue and using it against you the next day after you loss the game. I know I would. Shame on you for accepting a win that way. Shame on CIF for allowing Division 5 coaches and former coaches on their board to help make decisions against a team that year after year puts a strong program together and then just plain uses their hatred against Calvary to put them out. You can't beat them on the field the right way. You think you are doing this to the Calvary School, their A.D., their Head Coach...no you need to come witness these girls lives and what you stole from them.

Shame on you CIF for devastating 14 girls lives and walkin back to your cush jobs the next day only to see who you can stroke the next time.

Suspend the coach a game, but dont dessimate these seniors like this. This has WRONG spelled all over it. Forfeiting their playoff hopes because they threw whiffle balls to their girls. WOW! WOW!

Is this the same as Performance enhanced drug use, using inelgible players, conducting recruiting violations, tampered bats, etc. Those constitute forfeiture! NOT FORWARD WHIFFLE TOSS.

TRUST ME WHEN I SAY CIF HAS DIRTY FOUL PLAY WRITTEN ALL OVER THIS!

Most leagues have pre-season meetings. The first thing that is usually mentioned are rules. Most leagues follow the CIF rule on batting practice before games. Most high school tournaments hand out rules saying that all teams must abide by all CIF rules including batting practice. Having been a high school softball coach, I have personally gone to other coaches during tournaments/preseason to let them know if they are doing batting practice wrong. But if the coach doesn't the rule by the time league starts or playoffs begin, I have no sympathy for them.

Here is why the rule is in place. Not every school is equal. There are some schools who can't afford batting cages, pitching machines, or can't even afford to buy portable nets to hit balls into. Then you have other schools that have 1 or 2 batting cages, automated pitching machines,hitting nets, etc.

Is it fair that a home team can take advantage of batting cages and pitching machines, while a visiting team can only sit and watch?? These are the some of the issues CIF addresses. For years CIF has been promoting fair play, so they established this rule to make the warm ups more equal.

Sorry, couldn't help but put in my 2 cents, as joe amat pasted the rules were in place for both teams to read. The fact that a coach or A.D. didn't read them isn't an excuse. Some may think it's a stupid rule, but it applies to both teams to even out the playing field as much as possible.
No matter what the situation may be on the field, weather, field conditions, and I know that sometimes you've had a blue or two not calling it bothways :) but when there's a rule in black in white or RED in this case you need to know it.Girls play too hard for them to be victimized by a coach or A.D. who didn't do their homework.

A little more Jim Rome Cancer :

"IF YOU'RE NOT CHEATING YOU'RE NOT TRYING"

In tennis years ago, before the high tech computer stuff, when an opponent argued a call and the chair "missed" the call some players would "let a point go without any attempt on the ball...others would serve the ball out on purpose"..I seen it when I was a in high school in the mid seventies. Don't remember the players names but it stuck with me.

I've been in similar situations with refs and told them.."You missed that one" even when if it would hurt my team. I hate to cheat in sports.

Anyone remember the National Championship team that won a game during the season by "playing five downs" to score the winning touch down? I wondered why the Coach who clearly knew, the whole stadium knew, that the team cheated away their win.

During the game the refs clearly blew it...but wouldn't it have been something if the Head Coach declined the National Championship bid because "they didn't win fair and square."

Too bad everyone wants an advantage...and yet we're surprised kids use steriods, parent grease coaches, and teams like Oaks Christian beat up on Division 6 schools and brag about "the best staff and players in the country!"...a cheater is a cheater is a cheater...sooner or later everyone loses.

End of sermon.

During the regular season each league has different bylaws about pre-game batting practice. Our league states soft toss from the side and WIFFLE balls only. One team in our league has had 3 new coaches in three years. Each one has broken this rule by hitting regular balls. The first two years I let the coach know the rule and told them to get the rules from their AD, no protest, play the game. This year I started the game with a protest. We won so it didn't matter but the AD needs to take care of this. Let them off the hook twice but a third time was too much. Cal. Murrieta is a top notch program and the coaches and AD would do nothing to get an advantage, unfortuneately this rule slipped by them. Even though they did it all year if the coaches they faced let it happen so be it. But in playoffs you can't afford to slip up. Boarstow lost 4-0 to the #1 seed, they must have some ability. Maybe they will win a game ot two, I wouldn't be surprised.

Fred, No matter how you look at it, it is a hard way to lose and be put out of the tournament. You have to feel for the Murrieta team, the girls did what they were told by the coach who did not want to change her pre-game warmup. You also can not look down on the Barstow team for pointing it out. A rule is a rule and has been put there for a reason. In this case it is so that a home team does not have an unfair advantage over the visiting team who has to travel a great distance, and Barstow had to travel 3 and a 1/2 hours to get to the field. You already have an advantage by playing at home. I coached girls HS softball for years and you are given this information by CIF, so the Murrietas coach has to take responsibility for the forfeit. You break the rules, you pay the price! It does not matter how small the rule may seem to you, it still can not be broken. Murrietas coach should have learn from the past, her team is not the first to be put out of the playoffs for breaking this same rule.

the rule is clear and was put in place for whatever reason. a bulletin was sent out to all schools. again everyone was notified. at the damien wild card game a few dads were discussing the fact that a team was in the batting cages warming up before the game. he was saying how he went over and told them the rule. they were surprised but basically no harm no foul. i asked the days, since i know nothing about baseball, "you can't do that?"..both dads said "NO" emphatically.

Then they went on to tell me something about..."you could get disqualified" and that it was "an unfair advantage"....neither dad was a damien coach but both knew the rule. don't know which team they were talking about but i guess the point is...THE KIDS DIDN'T KNOW.

Maybe that's the area that needs to be addressed. Kids for the most part, don't like to cheat....coaches and parents do but kids just want to play.

What I would like to know is when and why he rule was first adopted. Must have been a clear cut point that moved CIF to enact such a rule. Does anyone know why and when this took hold.

I used to be a big St. Paul Fan until I found out Anich "cheated' by filming Pioneer's practices from a hotel across the street. Same goes for Cantwell back in the day. Former Cantwell coaches told me how they would park a car across the street for a week so it wouldn't look out of place and come back during our practices and "film" and "take notes". When I asked them is that why you guys always beat us ....they both laughed and said...."the hardest part was getting a car that fit into your neighborhood!!!" Those Cantwell guys are still very good friends but wow...I'm still shocked they saw nothing wrong in doing so.

When you "cheat" in sports you violate history. The Patriots will never walk away from their legacy of cheating, neither will McGwire, Rose, Clemens, Bonds, Giambi, Marion Jones and others.

Florence Griffin was always accused of cheating. When she died suddenly an autopsy proved she was drug free....and still there were whispers that the testing wasn't sophisticated enough!

First rule and only rule in sports ...DON'T CHEAT!!!!

the umpires do not make the decision anders! they just report what they witnessed in their game report, there are variables involved here, did all the players hit? did just one player, isn't it a big enough advantage to be the home team when the visitors ride a bus for three hours just to get there, think about it, if you cheat, pay the price, sac up, no pun intended!

The key word in this rule is "MAY" be disqualified. What determines this? The rule should clearly state that the team "WILL" be disqualified. So even if you get caught you "MAY" not be disqualified? This should have been decided by the umps before the game had been played. The girls flat out got beat! Leave it on the field or don't play the game.

The rule is spelled out in the playoff bulletin, that is sent to AD's and Coaches. It starts with

"Please review this bulletin with your principal and girls' softball coach. We ask that coaches and athletic directors work closely together in a cooperative effort to produce a top quality game action plan should your school become a participant in the 2009 playoffs."

The second rule mentioned is in RED font that is twice as large as the rest of the bulletin.

BATTING PRACTICE – Includes bunting or slap hitting. Teams entered in the softball playoffs WILL NOT be permitted to take batting practice on the day of the scheduled contest. Batting practice will be construed as any type of pitching motion with ANY type of ball from in front of the batter (including pitching machines, underhand tossing, overhand throwing or pepper). THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE BATTING WARMUP WILL BE SIDE SOFT TOSS. The player who tosses the ball should be on a knee and to the side of the batter. The ball should be lifted, not pitched, to the batter.

Then...

In BOLD type and CAPITAL letters it says,

"THE PENALTY FOR BATTING PRACTICE WITH WIFFLE BALL, SOFTBALL, BASEBALL, ETC. MAY BE FORFEITURE OF GAME. "

you can see it here (it also explains the entire seeding/pairing process... in case you were wondering.)

http://www.cifss.org/admin/images/bulletins/Playoff%20Bulletin%20for%20Softball%202009.pdf

Dumb rule or not... ignorance of the rule is even dumber.

Fred,
Thank you for your article. You are absolutely right on all your points. It is a stupid rule. Why is it allowed through out the season and suddenly it's an unpardonable act. For you who want to point the finger at the coaches, shame on you. Give me a break. What's travel got to do with it? All these teams travel hours before a game and have time to prep for a game. Look for some CIF ammendment to this to try to cover for this stupid rule. "Know the full story before you make an assinine comment". What story?

Fred, "I wouldn't want to put my uniform back on if I advanced this way"? What kind of rules did you play by Fred? If you were on a baseball team and they were using illegal bats, would you feel the same way. Or if the other baseball team was in their batting cages when you just got off your 2-3 hour bus ride, would you feel the same? Give me a break. Just because it is softball you make a completely uninformed comment. Talk about knee-jerk reactions. Know the full story before you make an assinine comment.

I think the coaches should have had full knowledge of all of the CIF rules prior to game play. Don't blame it on the other team and say that they did not work as hard as the team that was disqualified or that they should be ashamed to put their uniforms back on and move on in the playoffs due to the lack of knowledge of the other coaches. The girls from both teams worked very hard to get where they were.Don't bash Bartow! The rules are the rules. They worked hard all season and do deserve this opportunity

kinda hard to take your kid out of school to hit at 9 am, Amat left at 940 for their game yeaterday,as stupidrule claims, the rule is the rule, I want to have 5 strikes if I am hitting!.the coach plead ingnorance, her and the AD need to read the rules! maybe it's a shame for the Barstow team , their kids played by the book, they probably were on a bus for 3 hours and didn't get BP, neutral sites? that sucks too, I in fact like the penalty, cheaters shoud be punished, if being home team when the other squad has to drive for 3 hours isn't enough of an advantage, I don't know what is!

I couldn't agree with Fred more. I understand the CIF wanting to keep things fair for both teams, but this is one of the rules that needs to be tossed out. What ashame for the girls who worked so hard all year. Shame on you CIF!!

front toss should be allowed as in college this is a ridiculous rule both teams should be allowed 30 minuntes in the cage for front toss before every game hence the traveling team arrives one hour before each game.This would keep daddy's from taking there kids out of lunch to go hit balls at the cages on game days lol.

Fred
That's absolutely ridiculous.I don't understand that at all.Cif office should be dismantled and completely reorganized.Believe me they think their gods over their in Los Alamitos.

softball ump,

You bring up an important point that is really the basis behind the "no batting practice rule (which as you point out in the Lakewood situation - exists in baseball as well).

CIF tries to make the playoffs "equal" for the home and visitor and encourages everything all the way to equal seating and equal access to facilities. In games where travel is excessive - it is not reasonable to believe that the traveling team will have time to take batting practice of any kind. Therefore eliminating batting practice for the home team too is more "equitable".

soft toss is legal b4 playoff games , whifflrs or game balls , as long as it is tossed from the side of the player, not from the front or simulating a pitch. CIF softball umpire

the coaches are or s/b aware of this playoff rule, any diligent coach would be aware of these rules, Lakewood BB forfeited a game a few years ago too, the umpires just reported what happened in their game report as they should , it was the CIF office who made the decision, it's not fair for a team to travel 4 hours on a bus(Amat to Morro Bay) is it? but that is the opponent, is it fair for the home team to have or take BP say at 1PM when someone else comes from who knows where for a playoff game, if I were the players I'd be p$$$$$ off at the "ignorant" coach, and AD of Calvary Murrieta.

I think it is totally unfair to the girls who worked so hard to be where they were at. Shame on the officals. Warning first..If I was the team that was moved up, I would not feel proud of myself knowing I didn't really earn the spoy.