It doesn't pay to play the tough schedules; Just ask West Covina, nowhere to be found in the Southeast Polls, not even in "others."

COCF,
You may be right in the fact that for you WC is a cupcake to AMAT . What you fail to see is the perspective of other people looking at your schedule and our schedule. As I had stated when we play a Marine league team we play the top team and when CO plays a Marine league they play the bottom team . Perception is AMAT plays the best they offer CO plays the worst they offer, part one of the batter. Earlier I also said when we play WC the perspective is they are stepping up not that we are playing a cupcake.Part two of the batter. After all what do we do decline the game so they (WC) and Fred can have a thread on how AMAT backed out of playing a game with WC and then the whole SGV comes after us as to being afraid of WC. Sound familiar. When has CO really ever played a top school the likes of a Mater Dei , Notre Dame, Edison , Los Al, or anyone other that AMAT and we know what happened then. Part three of the batter . Equals the cupcake perspective. You know I do not care what teams CO plays because it only effects them and not us . You yourself have said you don't put much stock in league titles and maybe that is because they come so easy to CO . Well as of next year maybe it will be a little tougher for CO to get the league title but either way by force CO now has to step up their game and leave the Gardenas and Universitys behind because they will be facing much stiffer competition and the only way to prepare for that is to schedule up. Like I said earlier if you are being honest you would see the farce it is for a team like CO to play Gardena and University and ask for the same type of view for AMAT when playing WC and DR in that we have a cupcake schedule.

COChargerFan,
Look again, West Covina's rating is a 26 .2
not 12.6, Amat beat CO pretty easily a couple of years back so I guess that makes CO a cupcake too doesn't it?

Hey just saying...Amat beat WC by a combined 63 to 13...makes them Amat's “cupcake” regardless of the other teams that WC schedules. And last time they played in 2007, MD beat WC 58-6...making them a very, very, very big cupcake. And BTW, while WC lost in the semi's last year did you forget that CO was the Champ? And that WC last played and got beat badly by RC in 2007 and that same year CO beat WC badly…twice? And, who cares what Gardena’s record was 3 years ago…has nothing to do with this year’s team. So, what exactly is your point? Did you see Gardena play this year? They have some very fast skill guys but are hurt by a lack of size on the lines. It is interesting that you choose to point at Gardena's record and then ignore who they play...which, ironically, is at the core of your Pac-5 argument. Does Loyola stink because they went 1-3 in league and 4-6 overall? I say NO but just looking at their record, which is the game that you want to play when it suits your purpose indicates otherwise. Gardena does routinely get beat in the Marine League...this accounted for 4 of their 5 losses this year (they went 5-5 so their record was better than Loyola’s)...playing Carson, San Pedro and Narbonne who are the 2, 5 and 11 seeds in the D1 City playoffs. Do you really believe that the San Antonio is better than the Marine, if so, I suspect that you are alone…BTW, since you like calpreps so much…they rank the Marine as the #20 toughest league and the San Antonio at 36th and Gardena’s individual rating is a 17 and WC is a 12.6. So, who is the bigger cupcake per your beloved calpreps? Did you see that this year Gardena scored 18 points against Carson but Mater Dei only got 2…numbers don’t lie. I see that you are now putting RC on your “better opponents” list…very, very, very funny stuff. Take off the rose colored glasses and see the truth…it will set you free (and, hopefully, stop the cupcake nonsense and put it into the trash can with the transitive property garbage.)

COChargerfan - West Covina is coming off a year in the CIF semifinals with a history of playing better opponents (Mater Dei, your beloved Rancho Cucamonga Cougars, and have defeated the Sierra league champs two years running). So scheduling a local rivalry game against such an opponent is far, far, far different than squeaking by Gardena who have won 5 games in the last 3 seasons and haven't made the playoffs since 2004. That's what I disagree with. The two are far, far, far different. CO stepped WAY down for Gardena AND University who were 0-10 this year, 1-9 a year ago. Indefensible.

just sayin...my conclusion of the comparison of Amat vs. WC and CO vs. Gardena is not a knock on Amat...it is called looking at the facts...and I only did it because some of you Amat guys continue with this "cupcake" nonsense. Now, if you disagree with my analysis then please let me know where you disagree...is Amat not a 10, CO an 8 and both Gardena and WC pretty much 5's?

COChargerfan - why is it in every argument you must somehow try to bring Amat down to your level by saying something like "so, actually, CO is accepting a greater challenge than Amat." Do you really have so little in life that ALL you have to do is try to find a way to equate CO with their Blue and Gold superiors?

No matter how or what is said, you cats just turn everything into an argument of how much better Amat is...do you guys really have so little in life that ALL you have to celebrate is living vicariously through a high school football team??? Pathetic...no, actually is really, really sad...here’s a little fact that you cats are missing…you’re not on the football team so THEIR success is not YOURS.

Serra League=4th best league in the NATION
FYI,
San Antonio = #372
Miramonte & Sierra= tied at #600
http://calpreps.com/2009/ratings/National_leagues.htm

Pac5 = 3rd best DIVISION in the NATION
Central = #112
Southeast = #129
http://calpreps.com/2009/ratings/National_divisions.htm

COCupcakefan

Bishop beat the heck out of Notre Dame and won the Serra League which is considered one of the top 10 leagues in the U.S.A. I think it's safe to say that Bishop has bigger "footballs" than Charter Oak. Please don't be an idiot and try to argue otherwise.

AMAT 73...let me start by saying that I'm not bringing this stuff up to start an argument but only to try to educate so maybe this nonsense will stop..."COwards" obviously has had way too many concussions so, my friend, just ignore this post because it is way over your head.

Amat vs. WC and CO vs. Gardena is still the same "cupcake" situation of a heavily favored team vs. a big underdog...it is what it is. So, going one step further, ranking teams on a 1 to 10 scale with 10 being the highest, Amat is a level 10 and WC is around a 5 and CO is an 8 who is also playing a level 5 so, actually, CO is accepting a greater challenge than Amat. From the other perspective, WC is accepting a bigger challenge than Gardena but doesn't that also make them a bigger cupcake?

Here's hoping that both Amat and CO bring home CIF Titles and afterwards we can just celebrate together rather than argue about which team's "football" is bigger.

COCupcakefan and other COwards:

Ya'll are a bunch of chickens after getting rocked by Bishop! Im sure University and Gardena will put up more of a fight next year! LMFAO! Whatta moron!

COCF,
You are correct. We have lost in the past to Carson , Valencia and there are a few others and yes the Marine league is very tough. The big difference that people look at is at AMAT we played the top team of that league where CO chooses the worst team in that league to play. Do you think if CO scheduled Carson we would be having this debate. Don't get me wrong as you know I have plenty of respect for Lou and the program but that is just a fact. The reason we are looked at as not having a cupcake schedule when playing the likes of WC,DR is it is looked at more in the sense of them stepping up to play us instead of us scheduling a weaker opponent as it is looked at when CO plays the likes of Gardena and University which if your being honest they really could have scheduled stronger opponents .

AMATomic Bomb…the fact that WC competed against Mater Dei in 2006 wasn’t because of honor and respect but, instead, just proves what I keep saying over and over again…there is more parity between the top teams from different divisions than many give credit. Remember, in 2006, both CO and SH also beat WC and this was the first year of the Pac-5 Division and it was won by Orange Lutheran…who was a team that was D6 the year before. I teach my kids to strive for their best but be realistic at the same time…if your kid struggles in school than it would be a good idea to start getting them back to earth on their dream to be an astronaut. Remember, 50 years ago young kids were piloting Zeros at battleships for “honor” but most rational folks would call it what it actually was…suicide. Funny that everyone keeps avoiding the question…if Gardena is CO’s cupcake than certainly DR and WC are Amat’s cupcakes…Am I missing something because isn’t a cupcake a team that needs a small miracle to win and doesn’t WC and DR fit the bill? So, why do WC and DR earn honor and respect yet Gardena doesn’t garner the same respect for playing CO? And, why isn’t Amat judged for playing two cupcakes the same as CO is accused? The reality is that Gardena is a decent football team that usually posts a losing record because they play in a tough league with Banning, Carson, Narbonne and San Pedro…I bet you Amat guys remember Carson from 2006 and 2007. Anyone out there prepared to argue that the Marine League isn’t tougher than the San Antonio? It is all perspective folks…are you a cupcake or the one that is eating one?

I don't care what anyone says about the benefit of not playing tough schedules. What a bunch of crap! Is that what we want to teach our kids? To take the easy path? To be afraid of the challenge? We've been hitting and running with the best for since 1957. You know who we respect? The West Covina Bulldogs. You should have seen them against Mater Dei the first year they played them. The were a sight to see. They played us tough this year too. South Hills made Esperanza panic not so long ago.Damien has an extensive history with Bishop Amat and St. John Bosco. And what about young Diamond Ranch..who dared to break the "we will play anyone, anytime" record for scheduling.

RESPECT TO THEM FOR NOT BEING AFRAID!!!

Funny how you cats just ignore the MaxPreps and LA Times rankings to reach your own conclusions...I'm citing the experts who say that RC is better than Tesoro and Esperanza....and you are relying on your own personal b.s. ranking. Who cares about anyone's schedule 10-15 years ago...you can't be serious that this is something that matters in respect to the present rankings of football teams.

How do you WC and DR guys not realize that you are both nothing more than "cupcakes" on Amat's schedule? Be my guest to keep on being the whippin boys to earn "honor and respect" while teams like CO keep playing for titles...to each their own. Personally, I'd take a title over honor every day of the week

And, if I want to see big boy football, I'll go watch the Trojans or San Diego Chargers...because NONE of these high school games are even remotely close to the big boy category. And for you brass balls I've got two words...the first is "Los" and the second is "Osos"...oops, here's a third word..."Valencia." See, every team, included Amat, has had their huckleberry so it is suggested that you think before you speak...

COChargerfan you should just give up man. You keep defending your weak schedule with a 357 magnum loaded w/ blanks.

Coach Lou is afraid of the Southern Section Elites because of what happened with Bishop Amat. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. Rancho C and Etiwanda are having good years but are no one compared to Oaks Christian, Mater Dei, Esperanza, etc. It does not matter how they are doing this year. How about 10 years ago? Why didn't Coach Lou schedule Long Beach Poly 10 or 15 years ago? Why didn't he schedule Servite 20 years ago. I KNOW WHY! It's called FEAR OF LOSING!

COChargerfan, keep defending your cupcake coach and schedule and you will keep being a laughing-stock on this blog and to your own CO fans. You want to see big boy football, go see Fountain Valley play Los Alamitos, Dana Hills play Mission Viejo, or Notre Dame play Bishop Amat. Anyone of those games are going to draw at least 7000+ fans.

It's not always about winning...it's about challenging yourself and your team to rise up to the occasion. I guess playing for HONOR and RESPECT against the odds is something Coach Lou and Co. don't practice or teach.

You should challenge Coach Lou to step up rather than defend his boring past.

Just like Mexicans to tear each other down and apart. Be happy for your neighbor and try to stop putting programs down that are serving their communities in a positive manner.

Bishop Amat I know for a fact you're better than this.

DR being young is no excuse for being an ignoramous, have some class.

sure took a lotta guts for CHOak to schedule RC after they just got swept for two years by the worst Amat teams in history. Lou probably figured if Amat beat the Chargers like their "FEMALE PUPPY" for two years - then turned around and swept the Cougars the next two years, he was getting an easier game than what it ended up being.
- and I think Tesoro and Esperanza beat the heck out of RC or etiwanda

wc keep your head up, there is nothing wrong scheduling tough teams....this is football...yes high school football is alot different then it used to be 20 yrs ago but its still fooball.listentothis co "fan" try to justify the lack of balls co football has....yes you gals are good but who knows it....nobody....lets see...DIAMOND RANCH has scheduled and played teams like servite,edison,oaks chist,and even the best in the sgv amat....shoot its hard living next to amat...the school that takes all of your talent...it will pay off sooner or later..so keep your head up....and kudos to the coaching staff for having big HEVOS....remember its the kids that are playing this sport...

Bulldog…do you not realize that RC is the defending Central Division Champ who at the start of the season the Times had ranked in the top 10 and now still has ranked 17th…and that Tesoro and Esperanza have never been ranked this year? So CO and not WC and SH is actually the team that played a ranked team. Currently, MaxPreps has RC ranked 56th in Section…Esperanza is 57th…Tesero is 63rd…so CO has still played the higher ranked team.

As to Etiwanda, the Guru actually picked them to win the Baseline League this year…they may prove him right this Friday so what makes you think that they are a bad team? By the way, Maxpreps has them currently ranked 73rd.

The thing about this honor scheduling argument that I find hilarious is did getting beat badly by Amat last year help the Bulldogs against DR in the playoffs…obviously not. But, CO went on to beat DR easily for the title…so who won?

Even funnier is that it looks like guys like Joe Amat and you can bet their coaches are now realizing that it doesn’t pay to play the pre-season “honor schedule” LOSERS like WC and DR. What you also don’t get is that schools like Amat look at WC as an easy win tune up game against an inferior opponent …making the Bulldogs their FEMALE puppy that is gift wrapped with a pink bow.

If SH or WC gets CO in the playoffs and beats them then you will be entitled to talk but until then you’re just another non-ranked team that is jealous of CO’s perch…looking down not up.

CIF has almost always had a low ranking for WC, it was only a couple years back in 06 that they had us as the bottom ranked team in the division [16th seed], and for that, WC exposed their ignorance at CIF and their ranking system by beating the undefeated [10 & 0] and #1 ranked team in the division.
Maggiore is right, they should consider strength of schedule when ranking teams, and the playoffs should always be bracketed so that the better teams will meet towards the end of the playoffs not in the 1st or 2nd round. The rankings should be made according to who they think would win in head to head match ups, not by blindly looking at someones record.
You wonder if some of these people at CIF who make the rankings might have a favorite team or two and are looking to give them an easy playoff path at the expense of the better teams. Either way I hope Maggiore keeps the tough teams on the preseason schedule, its a lot more fun for the fans and it prepares the team for the higher caliber teams they will face in the playoffs, hopefully with the higher caliber of play that
WC came up against in preseason there will be fewer surprises in our post season.

joe amat
keep them coming baby ,you and i have stalker fans,there like bats at night waiting to sink there teeth into ours necks.
thats why the battery has two sides .
if it was all love,we would be in haven but life on earth is full of hell.am one of your fans.sometimes people leave long vocie mails.delete them .thats the problemthe brains so deleted,the buttons fried my friend..is that you with the amat blue wind bracker on. love the pride.if they didnt have the sit out rule i would send k.c. my son to amat for his last year.love the wrestling program.lots of pride.

COChargerfan

Honor is right. The guy that ranks the top 25 at the Times said that he was having regrets about ranking CO. The comment was small and brief but it was there about 2-3 weeks ago after CO barely escaped Etiwanda. CO was supposed to beat Etiwanda big considering they are a non ranked team.Also, you can't blame people for questioning Coach Lou. He's never faced a big time program. South Hills has played Esperanza and Tesoro. West Covina played Mater Dei. Diamond Ranch has played Oaks Christian. Damien has played St. John Bosco. The highest ranked team Coach Lou has played is Rancho Cucamonga. Rancho Cucamonga has had recent success but is no where as established as the schools I mentioned.And no, I don't think that Coach Lou is scheduling to keep his job. But one has to wonder why? So why do you think Coach Lou has never challenged himself or CO by scheduling someone like Mater Dei?

HARRY BUFFOON!

To all you haters out there knocking on Joe, that isn't cool!

Appreciate a good writer with heart, and why knock it?, it's about FOOTBALL!

JOE, I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO YOU FOR COMMENTING LIKE YOU DO!

I don't know why this is a shock. With the exception of the PAC 5, every poll seems to be based soley on W-L record and no other factor (strength of schedule, head to head, injuries at the time, a team gaining momentum through the year). It's been this way for years. West Covina should be ahead of Rowland, just as before South Hills beat Walnut Rowland should have been ahead of Walnut.

I wish you would leave. If every comment was trash like yours we'd have nothing to good to read here at all. We're still waiting for that headline that reads, "Harry Ballzonya says - "
And tell everyone the truth I read everything to you because you can't read anyway. Now if you want dinner - go do your yardwork.

To Joe Amat.

Please Shut The F%&K Up! Get a job at Walmart as a greeter or maybe at your local elementary school as a crossing guard, but PLEASE find something else to do other than posting these rambling 5 page comments that NO ONE gives a rats ass about! If my wife had that much to say I would have left her 20 years ago.

Honor...gets your facts straight. CO was actually one of the teams considered for the State bowl last year and exactly who at the Times told you that they regretted ranking CO? You know why that is a crock...because CO is STILL ranked (#24) by the Times. And, who at CO's Admin Office told you that Big Lou, who has been CO's coach for a couple of decades, will be fired if he losses a few games to power teams? Do you actually believe the nonsense that you posted? If you are not "please" then you guys should hook up to finally figure out for the rest of us ignoramuses whether someone was on the grassy knoll in Dallas.

And be careful what you wish for…it is a good thing that Amat didn’t schedule Tesoro and LB Poly because they are both 4-5 which would be 3-6 if Amat beat them which would drag down the SOS even farther...in fact, that would have doomed a shot at the wild card, if necessary. Here’s a thought…when is Amat going to schedule Los Osos again? Or, one of the other good teams from the IE?

Anyway, I’m rooting for Amat to win Friday. Because, I’d like to see them get into the ship because there is no “honor” in falling on your "schedule sword."

Joe amat for having no life and
making long boring posts. I mean Jesus if you combined all your long pathetic posts you could write a boring book that wouldn't sell.

burbanksports...please!

COChargerfan

As someone stated on another thread, Charter Oak won a CIF title last year and was ignored by the CIF Bowl reps as well as the LA Times.The LA Times also expressed regret at ranking Charter Oak this year because of their close games with teams the Chargers should have defeated by a larger margin.

Farrar has never scheduled a true "powerhouse" because his goals have always been to keep his job. This is understandable and if your goal is to simply keep your job, than ok!

The top tiered teams in Southern California play for something most have forgotten about. This something is called "Honor." This is why teams like St. Bonaventure, Long Beach Poly, and yes, even Bishop Amat schedule the way they do.

So yes, it's great that Charter Oak was and is going to be CIF Champions. But it is not fair to expect respect from not only Amat fans but from West Covina or South Hills fans. Until Charter Oak schedules Tesoro, Mater Dei, or St. Bonaventure, their schedule will continue to be declared as "cupcake."

That's what the guy from CIF office, the same guy Bogan accused of smoking to much weed last year, said this morning when he realized he left WC out. I believe they were one of the OTHERs last week.

jcaz,

Great thoughts. A good time to bring up the The Bishop Amat Military Memorial on campus.

If you bloggers have never had the opportunity to walk past the on campus Memorial you might want to do so on Friday as you walk to the game a (or even sometime tommorrow as a pilgrimage). The Memorial is located down the right field line of the baseball field.

It was constructed to remember those Lancers who have lost their life while on active duty in the Armed Forces of the United States. The Memorials purpose is to to offer prayers for and recognize the supreme sacrifice of Bishop Amat graduates.

I intended to write a bit about it tomorrow.

jcaz...to correct your typo...never had the honor of being a Marine but it is "semper fi" for the few and proud.

Different strokes for different folks but for me the "prize" is a CIF title so anyway a team can get to the playoffs (e.g. hard, easy or cupcake schedule) is what works for them...a team can't win a title without getting an invite into the dance and once you're in, then it is becomes time to perform which will certainly include the best teams in your division.

Maybe the CIF should buy themselves one of those fancy, wancy BCS computer programs to "fix" the system...then there wouldn't be any complaints (tongue in cheek).

West covina needs to worry more about the Bulldogs from the Pacific League than the rankings.

Yeah, I have a hard time with the Mid-Valley rankings too. Granted a lot of the programs are down this year, but how do you consiously put three teams from the Montview in their top 10? I can understand Azusa to an extent, but Gladstone and La Puente...child please. Then you have San Marino up there when they've played no one (besides Monrovia) and lost to La Canada. I bet the Olympic 2nd and 3rd place teams could roll all four teams I've mentioned.

I just wanted to take a moment to point out to all of my fellow bloggers that today is a very special day for me, as well as for many people who have ever served this great nation of ours.

Today my friends is the birthday of the United States Marine Corps !

So, to all my present and former devil dogs, I say to you, “Simper Fi !”

And to all of my other fellow veterans, I also say to you, thank you for your service to our nation.

"A very good record will undoubtedly improve a teams "ranking" and may get them an easier road in the playoffs. ***But beware*** - a schedule that is too simple may not provide the types of obstacles needed to prepare to defeat quality opponents."

Can I get an Amen.....

MTC

While you already know how I feel about the opportunity to play the best schedule possible for your individual team. It's not for everybody - but if you aspire to make a claim to be the best, it's necessary. If not - then do your thing, but you don't have much room to talk. Which is the goal of high school sports, to prepare kids to be the best that they can be and possibly prepare some to play at the next level while teaching them a bunch of things necessary to compete in the "real world", fail, and get back after it again? Or is the goal to schedule in such a way that you get ranked or seeded in some post-season tournament?

The basic scheduling choices are really two-fold: First, you can create a difficult schedule and become more "battle tested" for the rigors of league play and the challenges of the playoffs. Secondly, a somewhat easier schedule can be constructed to allow the team to obtain a few more victories and develop a little bit of confidence. Both methods have their advantages, but also come with some pitfalls.

Playing a tougher schedule may result in more losses than normal, but the game-to-game combat against challenging competition teaches players what they need to do to get better. Maintaining a positive attitude during any defeats the team might face is crucial but the process could be beneficial as the team improves while looking toward league and the playoffs. Understand that the added losses will, no doubt, result in a lower ranking in the standings or polls. To a certain extent, these are used, many times, to determine seedings come playoff time. With the CIF format of bracketing (as the Guru tried to point out) after the 1st 4 seeds, everything goes according to a formula - so the really important thing as far as bracketing is concerned, where you place in league is most important.

If this "tough scheduling" method is chosen, you can`t complain about the rankings because the intended result is: "it just doesn`t matter who the team plays in the playoffs, as they have already seen the type of play that is required to advance" . So they may start lower and have a more difficult road to follow - but they are ready for it. (see Diamond Ranch last year)

On the other hand, with a slightly less challenging schedule a team can experience a certain level of success in being able to execute their game plan, and wins have a tendency to aid in the developing of confidence. Confidence can take a player, and a team, a long way against inferior or equal competition. They may expect to succed and win - so they do. A very good record will undoubtedly improve a teams "ranking" and may get them an easier road in the playoffs. ***But beware*** - a schedule that is too simple may not provide the types of obstacles needed to prepare to defeat quality opponents. This may result in an earlier than expected departure from the playoffs, and a disappointing end to the season. Of course - if you don't face any tougher teams, it may not be a problem in your individual division.

Coming full circle - why do we play? To get a high seed? I don't feel that way. If coaches prepare kids to become the best players they can be - they'll do as well on the field as they can and the chips will fall where they should. And that's how we should evaluate coaches and programs.

i rest my case ,your poles mean zero, right now next week will start the real poles if a teams not in the playoffs theres a reason.played a weak preseason and wasnt ready for there own league.thats why the world series is played at the end of the season fred my friend.walnut and amat could be watching the dance this year.mrs. clintin was ahead in the poles for a moment to big deal,front runners rarely finish the race.just a rabbit running tell somebody gets hungry enough to catch and eat oh..watch the lower and middle pack teams in the play-offs
w.c.
damien
bonita
those are the teams that will start playing for pride becasuse your polls give them no love for them playing a really strong pre-season.teams that will fall
b.p
s.d.
amat.
well am going on what ive seen.am going to make the bearcats 13 and half point favorite for friday nights game agaist walnut.last week we covered my 36 point speard,great work team bearcat.
dont know anything about walnut and dont care.
man we loked good in pratice yesterday the kids look pumped.garrett was throwing 60 plus bombs one after another .
here comes the bearcats

Lets try this again Freddy boy do you seriously think SD,BP and Rowland would beat Damien? I thought so your polls are just as messed up.

Fred,
Its because nobody cares for instance your polls are just as screwed up do you really think that SD,BP and Rowland would beat Damien? I thought so