Another batting practice protest kicked to the curb, CIF showing more compassion than ever to do the right thing over win at all cost protests

Beckman tried protesting Upland’s 3-1 Division 2 softball quarterfinal victory for, guess what, an illegal batting practice. CIF looked at it, determined once again, like South Hills’ baseball win over Montebello, that while an illegal batting practice took place, the number of players involved was determined to be not sufficient enough to force Upland to forfeit the game, which I completely agree with. Again, kudos to CIF for siding with the kids that won on the field, and who were obviously not trying to cheat anyone, but made a silly mistake, not one that warrants the death penalty in the playoffs. Why teams continue to file these protests in hopes of winning this way is beyond me. A full organized batting practice is one thing, but when it’s obvious just a few kids are involved, do the right thing and take your medicine. You lost, don’t look to be bailed out by a few whiffle balls.


Protesting over this? An anonymous emailer sent this photo of South Hills “illegal batting practice,” in the first round against Montebello, which protested their loss. CIF, determined that while illegal, it was not enough to remove a team from the playoffs because only a couple of players took part.

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  • outsidelookingin

    Fred,
    Thats not the case at all. Beckman didn’t advise the umpire’s before or after the game about a protest. They tried to file the next day. Two freshman were practicing their bunting before the rest of the team got there and were shut down by the JV coache’s.

  • FredJ

    Why try and file a protest at all if that’s the case.

  • rules are rules

    If the rule is there, shouldn’t it be incumbent upon the coaches and players to know the rules. Knowing the rules, shouldn’t all participants follow the established rules? Failure to follow the rules should result in some type of action. The protest should have been filed before the game ever started. I think the participants in the illegal act should be punished by not being allowed to play. Case closed game on!!

  • Fred says “If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying!”

    Fred for once I agree with you.

    I say just let the number 1,2,3,4 hitters participate in illegal batting practice, what’s the harm right? It’s not like the whole team participates in a “silly mistake”. I do however take exception with Uplands disregard for the Tribune’s blog seeing as we discussed this at length and it STILL it happened again! The nerve of those guys.

    I still think CIF is “smarting: from the SI and national attention it got and is giving in to the “sour grapes” attitude of writers like you without enough sense to know the difference between breaking rules i.e. “cheating” and “silly mistakes”.

    Look at the Glendora Softball pitcher. Is she “cheating” or just getting “airborne”? Is the airborne aspect of her pitching giving her an advantgage…or course it is. That’s why it’s illegal.

    Is cheating, “breaking rules” knowingly or is cheating “gray area picnics” or is cheating “doctoring footballs”…or “recruiting” or “steroids” or is cheating…”looking the other way”.

    Fred your position is no matter what rule is broken the on field stuff is what matters right? Thats’ terrible. No wonder things are as they are. Where is the honor is fudging rules? Wait…isn’t “fudging” braking as well?

    Like I said before “peer pressure” wins out. When a rule is bad change the rule. When a rule is in place, respect the rule…everyone else is.

  • King Stud

    This is an interesting topic. So I guess it’s ok for a few kids to take BP as long as it’s not the whole team? Rules are rules and should be inforced. I do agree that a team should not protest after they have lost the game. This is something that needs to be protested before the game starts. To do it after the game is sour grapes. Why even have any rules if they arent going to be followed? What to stop another team in the future from allowing ” a few ” players to take BP knowing that they won’t be punished? CIF needs to be consistant then again we seem to be asking to much from them evidentally. BTW the South Hills protest should have been upheld. It’s the coaches responsibility to remind kids before each game that any BP is not allowed. Ignorance of a rule is not a good excuse.

  • Old Timer

    For Fred!

    Seriously Fred! You once again have shown that you sometimes you do not think before you speak. You are basically saying it is ok for some of the team to take batting practice as long as its not everyone! You continue to amaze me with your comments and your lack of knowledge on certain situations and certain things that go on during certain Sports seasons. SH should of had there boys tossed before the game and made an example of them so that other schools will take notice. It does give certain players an advantage by taking batting practice before a game, you wouldnt know that as you never played anything above Little League probably. This comment just bothers me that the kids that “played” the game should not be punished for a few, I guess we could say that as long as you show up for a game to play and only a few kids are ineligeble & and not the whole team is its ok to play and not punish the whole team. Seriously Fred you have really shown you are just a pencil pusher and know nothing really about what go’s on between the diamond or between the hash marks. Being a UCLA and Laker Homer doesnt count either. Sorry to go off on the board like this, but comments like this just kill me. Rules and Rules regardless if there on or off the field. Have a clue dude.

    Old Timer

  • FredJ

    Why don’t you just forward the same messages to CIF, obviously they agree with me too. I don’t think YOU get it, what about the senior who wasn’t involved and may have had no idea two kids were goofing off. Do you end his season like that, on a forfeit? Over something like this. Maybe you don’t remember what it was like being a senior, having that one year you can never have back. As a coach I wouldn’t want to take that year away from a kid like that. This is their time, not ours. Coaches come back every season, for these players, especially seniors, it’s their last hurrah, why spoil it over something like this? And besides, as a player, who wants to advance that way, I know I certainly wouldn’t. Have some compassion why don’t you?

  • The Lion King

    Rules and advantages! Yes, rules are rules, but in the case of soft toss batting practice, I have to wonder if the rule is a fair rule or a dumb rule?
    If fairness is the answer and taking batting practice is an advantage, then put a stop to infield/outfield and pitching warm-ups as well.
    Hell, lets take it further for fairness sake…no player shall exceed 5’3″ tall. Taller than that is a advantage. No more pitchers. All balls will be hit from a tee. The pitcher shall called the Center Infielder. Ist base and catchers gloves are prohibited as a advantage. The outfield gaps will be guarded by two more outfielders called the right gap fielder and left gap fielder thus preventing a batters advantage. Coaches will eliminated since no can determine which the smarter or better coach than the other, thus, an advantage. Their will only one bat per team and it will be of wood and be 34 ” in length and weighting 34 oz. Base stealing will not allowed, since some players run faster than others thus, advantage.
    Slap hitters will be prohibited thus preventing advantage.
    In baseball, the same rules, plus removal of the mound which was an advantage in the past. Additionally, no player of either sex shall allowed to gain muscle for advantage in strength. Cleats will be disallowed as a advantage. Lastly, only Blind umpires will be allowed thus eliminating any and all advantage to either team.
    As for the comment of the female pitcher at Glendora taking advantage by going airborne, one must stop and think who has the advantage, the pitcher or the batter, who, with their high tech bats can do more to change a game than a pitcher can by going airborne one foot closer to home plate.
    If that young lady in question was no good as a pitcher even by going airborne, there would be no complaint.

  • Double Standards

    The Lion KIng are you grandstanding? Seems to me you are. The value of this rule doesn’t allow for the ridiculous of other non rules. Extending no texting while driving might not be in place if someone is stalking you or you are witnessing a crime.

    The rule of no batting practice is in place. It clearly has an advantage. If you believe there should be 1/2 hour for both teams so be it but to say a senior is hurt by his team mates actions is what life is all about.

    The arbitrary application of standards is what’s wrong here. David Letterman bangs some interns while his wife is pregnant and no big deal. Tiger Woods does the same thing with strippers and he’s the devil.

    I’m sure the rule sucks. BUt I’m also sure the players, fans, coaches and umps know the rule. That’s life Fred.

    Speaking of screwing interns what’s Aram’s take on all this?

  • poet

    I agree that rules are rules, and if a team clearly breaks it, the consequence should be carried out (ie, a forfeit). Otherwise, why even have the rule?

    That being said, it is a stupid rule. On field, soft toss or whiffle ball pitches? 60′ pepper? Oh brother. Fact is, all of these kids have played hundreds of travel and rec games where… what happens? They go to the cage before the game, do soft toss, whiffle balls, etc. As long as all teams can do it, who cares? Besides, as a guy who coached literally hundreds of travel and rec games over the years, I think that my teams had many games with no time for any pre-game, where they hit the cover off the ball; and some with the full pre-game hitting, and the team hit for crap. PITCHING dictates the hitting in almost every case. Whiffle, soft toss, etc is just to get the kids loose and in game mode. By the time a kid is a varsity player, it is all muscle memory and psychology. Pregame hitting drills equals game success? How about, hundreds of games and practices, over many years, equals success. I had good teams and ran a structured pre-game, but I saw many teams with raggedy pre-games who could hit and play great. Pre-game, at a decent high school level, is not correlated with game success,in my opinion.

    A stupid rule. But it IS a rule, is it not? We are too quick today to disregard rules (“My lies were only about sex”—Sorry, perjury about sex is still perjury)as we think fit. Change the rule, or follow it. Grow a pair, CIF.

    And Fred, yes, I’d feel bad for the kids. But, it is the coach’s fault, and might the lesson learned (there are rules and we MUST follow them in a civil society) be more valuable than a win garnered while also breaking some admittedly stupid rule?

  • Old Timer

    Poet I agree..well said!

    As for you Fred, once again YOU cant seem to understand the difference between right and wrong. I didnt say I was for or against the rule, what I said was a Rule is a Rule, I dont see you JUMPING UP AND DOWN for the girl who was DQ’d for wearing a FRICKEN bracelet on her hand, for all we know she was a senior. Difference between you and myself is I call a spade a spade no matter team it is, you have been cherry picking for years your teams and players and coach’s that you like and dislike. I have watched from the side for years as you have jumped from BA, to South Hills to Charter Oak then all over NV for a couple years, now you seem to be in “WUV” with Bonita. Its sick to see you actually try and defend that fact that you have no clue as to how your comments are percieved. Rules are rules and I can bet money that CIF will address this next year, shame on the coach and the players as they knew what they were doing, and shame on you for basically saying its ok to break a rule as long as you are in the SGV and I like you. If this was a team or a coach who had dogged you or told you off in the past you would be asking for his head and saying “well a rule was broken” everyone knows thats how you role.

    Poet that was a great post!

  • The Lion King

    Grandstanding??? With a name of Double Standards saying I am grandstanding?
    I was certainly not grandstanding as you put it. Simply attempting to bring attention to the fact that there is advantage in all facets of any sport and every coach searches for any advantage to make his/her team better to win.
    Yes, the rule is a silly rule. I know why CIF put it in place, and it’s still a silly rule no matter how you look at it. Basically the rule was put in place to aid the team traveling to a game. In some cases travel was 1 hour to reach their destination. So the home team has the advantage of playing on their home field. A mental advantage. So why not select a field where both teams travel 30 minutes. No mental advantage any longer.
    Rules is rules as they say, but CIF must re-visit the rule and find a better way.

  • FredJ

    Old Timer, do you see a pattern there, Amat, SHills, Charter Oak, Northview and now you say I’m on the Bonita bandwagon. You forgot Glendora? That’s my job, to follow teams that win, you don’t see the Times giving equal coverage to the Clippers do you? And by the way, I didn’t chime in on the South Pas girls with the bracelet, explaining that was a bush league protest as well. These protests are all about the coaches and their resumes, but you have to think of the kids first.

  • Question For Fred

    You keep saying that you’re all about the kids, which is suprising considering how you allow some to be trashed in the comments on your blog, but what about the kids who DIDN’T break the rules? Do you care about them at all?

  • FredJ

    You know what’s funny about that is I’ve never had one kid tell me they didn’t like the blog, or think the blog was unfair. Criticism is part of life, and blogs are part of all of our lives now. The bigger life lessons are learning how to lose graciously, how to deal with defeat, not looking for a loophole to get out of it. You act like every cop should write you a ticket for going 26 in a 25 MPH zone. You’re breaking the law, right? Or how about baseball, since that’s the subject. Ever heard of the “in the vicinity” rule on a double play. The rules state you have to touch the bag on a double play, but umps overlook it for safety reasons if you’re footing is “in the vicinity.” But hey, according to you, rules are rules, ring ‘em up, right?

  • Typical

    Way to avoid the question, Fred.

  • FredJ

    What question did I avoid? If you’re asking about the kids that didn’t break the rules, I bet if I asked them one-by-one if they would be comfortable winning because of an illegal whiffle ball batting practice that was performed by just a couple player, I bet most of the plaeyrs would not want to advance that way. And to flip your question, what about the South Hills players that didn’t break the rules, either?

  • Spineless Journalism (Just kidding)

    Fred I think you’re on the fence most of the time. But this might not have been the issue to jump off the fence, especially when you phrase it that way. Calling out kids and coaches who actually follow the rules encourages teams to break rules. It’s all in the psychology of the game. Years ago we played Verbum Dei. They were loaded with future D1 players and a few NFL stars. As we walked to the locker room they were on the field in full uniform minus pads and helmets. They were huge! They were in beanies tossing tennis balls. It was intimidating as our 21 -0 1st Q score reflected, then we got going and tied it 21 all with two minutes to go.

    I think seeing teams break rules before games has the same affect. The players see it, they feel cheated or get distracted. The coach files a protest before the game and ends up losing only to be called out by you and other fair weathered reporters without a back bone. (Sorry that was heavy handed but I’m trying to generate hits for you Fred so play along) wink wink Could the coach tell his team, “They’re cheating! But we’re going to beat them anyway!!!’ Maybe inspire his team, of course he could. By the same token it’s naive to believe the offending coach is soooooo busy he doesn’t see the infraction himself. Really, a coach who can spot the slighty variation in arm action can’t see his catcher throw BP? RIGHT!!!

    The truth is we don’t read too many stories of teams who protest a game for batting practice violations and win, do we? Why is that?

    Fred I think the lesson here is to do some real research, or reporting, and find out the substance of the issues. Dig deep and give us something other than bubblegum journalism that cater to the mASSes.

    Fred, here’s some homework for you, has a coach ever agreed with a protest and admitted “they broke the rules” and didn’t deserve the victory.

    Some say I’m on a high horse but in truth I would have conceded the game. The lesson here is simple, ‘WE DON’T NEED TO CHEAT TO WIN”. That’s what life is all about, doing the right thing because it’s the right thing to do.

    The other day I spoke with a teacher I admired and when it was over I realized how human he really was. The reason was simple, he couldn’t do the right thing.

    When players play by the rules, when coaches play by the rules, when society plays by the rules we all win….when we look the other way, WE ALL LOSE.

    Just ask the Church.

  • Answer

    I would be sympathetic towards the non-offending Huskies. However, because of their teammates, their team violated a specific rule and should face some penalty. Win and lose as a team. The lack of discipline by a few players put everyone at risk, it wouldn’t be the first time. It sucks that their teammates put themselves ahead of the team fro the sake of “goofing off”.

  • Citizen’s Arrest

    “honest mistake” , “goofing off”, “being air borne” “rolled bats” how many different ways can you find to not call it what it is…”cheating” !

    The basis for “cheating” is to gain an advantage. Like doctoring footballs. I’m sure every player and parent though using a specific ball was a dumb rule but it was in place and every team honored it.

    The “rule” had to d with sponsorship and standardized equipment.

    Was it also a “silly” rule…okay yes but to the team that “doctored” the ball it was “cheating” and knew it.

    Now the girl with the jewelry was different but the same. Every one knew the rule and she violated the long standing, held up at every single tournament, others have suffered the same fate…RULE!

    Let’s not look at this as anything than it is, C.H.E.A.T.I.N.G.

    The bigger question, for me at least, is why not make the Refs, Umps and Officials, enforce the rule. That way hacks won’t come down on coaches, players and schools who PLAY BY THE RULES!