Would Charter Oak have won three straight Southeast titles, or would this have been West Covina, Bonita, Rowland or DRanch’s turn?

New season, new arguments: The new Hacienda and Sierra League’s are growing on me, but what bums me out is this could have been the year Bonita unseated Charter Oak in the Miramonte League while West Covina already would have unseated South Hills in the San Antonio, though who knows what might of happened in a playoff rematch. That’s what happened in 2004, South Hills beating West Covina for league, but West Covina returning the favor by beating South Hills in the Divisional title game. If the old Southeast Division were alive today, don’t you think undefeated Bonita and once-beaten West Covina would be favored to reach the finals over Charter Oak and struggling South Hills? Too bad we won’t know, the powers that be voted Charter Oak and South Hills into a tougher league and division mostly because they felt they were too dominant for a number of years and no longer wanted to face them. The timing couldn’t be worse. I would have loved to know if West Covina or Bonita could have beaten Charter Oak in a playoff game with a season on the line. That’s the best way to become champion, to beat the champion. It’s disappointing in that this could have been the changing-of-the-guard season for our top-tier teams not named Bishop Amat, but now we’ll never know for sure. Whether West Covina, Bonita or anyone else wins the Southeast Division Charter Oak can always counter: “Nice title, but you never went through the champs to get it.”

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  • So Cal FB Fan

    After watching both Charter Oak and West Co. Play, I would choose West Co. Hands down. They have much more talent than CO. They were bigger, faster and played with more passion. After hearing all of the “Mighty Charter Oak” talk on these boards, I was surprised to see a slightly above average team – Not a CIF championship Calibre team.



    Take Bonita out of the question they have not played anyone this year. It would be Charter Oak, West Covina, La Mirada and Mayfair fighting it out to go to the CIF championship. I would have loved to keep it in the Valley with CO vs West Co. If CO was in the Southeast this year it would be CO vs Mayfair in the finals.

  • FredJ

    I wouldn’t say that, Bonita beat Claremont comfortably, and many think Claremont is the second favorite in the Sierra behind Chino Hills.

  • Aaron

    Oh how the mighty have fallen. Bonita has had a solid schedule and is Undefeated.

  • JG

    Exceptional talent, This team bielievs in them selveds WES/Co Hands bown.

  • Don

    I love this line from Fred:
    Too bad we won’t know, the powers that be voted Charter Oak and South Hills into a tougher league and division mostly because they felt they were too dominant for a number of years and no longer wanted to face them.

    Fred, that’s why they have different divisions in the Section. If they wanted a handful of teams to dominate forever they would ignore school size, record, competitive equity, and anything else they might use to judge who ought to be playing whom.

    How many Miramonte League games did Charter Oak lose between 2000 and 2009? Four, five, six? I’m as big a Charger fan as there is, (outside of the alum’s/parents), but by anyone’s lights the time to move up was looooong past. The stinky end of the stick is that when the Deep Thinkers on Pine Street finally did get around to putting C O and SHHS in a more competitive league, they punished em by moving them up to the Inland Division. A big goof IMEHO. There has to be some mid ground because neither of these schools ought to be in the same D as the Big 8 or even some of the best of the Southwestern, Citrus Belt, or Baseline teams.

    Your question is a good one, but couching it within the ‘oh, woe is me’ take really reduces it’s validity and also disrespects teams new to the Division by presuming the only teams in contention would have been from the old San Antonio or Miramonte Leagues.

  • Dan

    Fred you sure know how to start a controversy,
    I like the topic though.
    I would have to go with West Covina, These same WC kids played very competitive with CO last year in their playoff game, the game was more competitive than the 35 to 10 score would lead you to believe. When you lose 5 fumbles against any team it’s going to affect the outcome in a major way, let alone a team like CO last year, most of those fumbles were miss handled balls, and killed some good drives. WC put 3oo on the ground against CO in that game and that was a CO team that had 5 D1 players on the field. WC has most of their team back while CO lost most of the major players from last years team. The kids are a year older and a year better and its been showing in a big way so far this season. Another thing is we have a fast and physical secondary with good size to go along with a solid line and linebackers, other teams have not been able to get around the corners this year as in previous years and we’re covering the pass better than the last couple of years. Anyway’s thats my opinion.



    Please tell me any teams that Bonita and Claremont beat that deserve any merit? Name one decent team? As far as Claremont they have not been the favorite in anything for the past 10 years. 5-5 in 2010, 2-8 in 2009 and 0-10 in 2008 they are not going to beat CO and they will get beat by Damien this year.

    3-Peat for the Charges but I rather have West Covina/Bonita/Diamond Ranch take it than anyone else. Keep it in the valley. Too bad the Southeast will never know what it was like to take down the defending two time champ CO!

  • the critic

    man thats tough to answer but i still think charter oak would had definitely won their third straight. even without adam muema and the other few players they lost charter oak still strong not much of a running team like the past two years but their passing game is pretty good and they still have a solid defense.

  • just askin’

    SGV FOOTBALL – Please tell me any teams that ChOak beat during the past two seasons that deserve any merit? Name one decent team?

  • COChargerfan

    Uh Dan…WC has given up 27, 21, 27, 28, 24 and 17 points so it’s not like their defense is dominating anyone.

    Not saying who’d win but a healthy CO puts up 31 against WC so the question is can WC score 32?

    And one other thing is that WC is a veteran team so they are already playing at or near 100% while CO is young and inexperienced so there is still a lot of room for improvement before the playoffs…the question is whether or not they will in fact improve…we’ll see.

    One things for certain, CO’s changed their defensive scheme for the Santa Fe game and the results were overwhelming. But, the question is whether the changes were the deciding factor or that Santa Fe is just not anywhere as talented as CO…either way, doesn’t say a lot about Bonita’s chances against CO…

    Don confirmed what I’ve been saying all along, CO lacks the enrollment to compete year in a year out with the giant Inland schools. Heck, WC has 3,000 kids to CO’s 1,900 so based on enrollment they are better suited to play the Inland schools. Just think WC or Bonita, win a couple of titleds in CO’s absence and you’ll earn the privilege of getting moved int the Inland while CO happily slips back into the Southeast…sounds like fun, doesn’t it???

    just asking…CO beat the very same teams that we’re talking about, that’s who. You’re right about Claremont…my bet is that their ranking came to Aram in his dreams.

  • Just saying

    Anyone that thinks that Claremont is the second best team in the Sierra is flat out crazy. They will be lucky to finish in the top four.

  • kh

    we crushed claremont brother,casey h got hurt and didnt play the second and k.c. huth came out with 4 minutes in the second half and didnt play the 3nd or 4 th quarter ,both starting lb.come on fred, tired of you down playing bonita the last 2 seasons in baseball now football,theres no better then 5=0 thats it 5-0 bring on wc rowland la walnut burbank,muir,who cares,
    why cry wolf ,sounds like your down playing our league now c.o. gone.after we win cif your setting up your little i told you without c.o. bonita back doored inn,
    c.o. earned all they got leave it at that.they got moved up because the crushed everybody.


    just askin’

    West Covina, Damien, Etiwanda, Bonita, Diamond Ranch etc etc etc…

  • south hills

    who is voting for south hills? Really…

  • BoHi


    Why? isnt Bonita on the voteing thing?

  • NotSince1995

    C’mon Fred…!

    Shouldn’t you at least have won something recently to be considered on this list? How about this century…?

    The BishopNation is now Below .500 in 2010…!

    BishopNation 2010 Season as of today:
    Garfield: 2 – 4
    Dominquez: 4 – 1 (BYE)
    Muir: 1 – 4
    Damien: 3 – 2
    Cathedral: 4 – 1
    Venice: 1 – 4

    Total opponents record: 15 – 16…!

    Can you say BELOW AVERAGE…?

    Really…! I’m not making this up people…! These are the facts…And the Tribune says this is toughest schedule in the SGV…! Hah!

    C’mon Fred, this is NOT 1995.

    Mentioning the “Keeblers” is an insult to the Southeast Division!

    Not in 2010 Either!

  • NotSince1995


    We all know “why” Bonita is not on the voting “thing”!

    STFU and enjoy your preseason. League is gonna be a rude wake up call for your team!

    Just being honest…!


    bonita is there . I do believe they are considered other at this point in time. Beat someone of substance and maybe they will list you by name . Until then be happy you are at least considered as other . It could be worse with no other at all.

  • just askin’

    SGV FOOTBALL – you were raggin’ on a Bonita team that is much better then either of the last two years and now you’re going to use them as an example of a good team you beat? Damien was below .500 – yet you say Claremont was just 5-5 last year – the same as Etiwanda two years ago and Claremont played them about even last season – so are they good, or not? When you beat a .500 team in the finals twice – your question is answered


    I’ll tell you if Bog and company had both those Canadas BIG LOU would still be looking for title # 5.Lucky for you charter choke! Thank cif for that gift. Both those boys would have been your best players, no doubt! Lancers in a dog fight Friday, and if I know Hags which I do special teams, special teams, special teams. BAHS 28 Crespi 24


    just askin’ are you an Amat fan? I can’t remember what team you represent…


    SGV FOOTBALL, just telling it like it is. Been around the block a few times and seen the talent this valley has produced. That’s all, any more questions?

  • Dennis Reynolds

    Running out of ideas for posts Fred? I could see you posting this after league play, but it seems silly to speculate on “who is better” now.

    And it seems unfair for you to say that Charter Oak would have the right to say “Nice title,but you did not go through the champs to get it”. How long will you consider Charter Oak the champs?

    It is not the fault of West Covina, Bonita or any other team in the Southeast Division that they will not have a shot at Charter Oak, why try and taint their title?

    And to COCHargerfan,

    Enrollment does not mean anything to Big Lou and his crew, most of their past star players were transfers or never lived in the district anyway.
    Pretty common knowledge to anyone who follows high school football in this area.

  • just askin’

    SGV FOOTBALL – would it change your answer depending on who I “represent”?

  • NotSince1995

    just askin:

    Just come out of the closet (like Lancer4Life) and tell COChargerfan that you are the FRACASO from LaPuente (aka: BishopNation, aka: No Ring For You, aka: Not Since 1995, aka: Keeblers, aka: Pac 5 “bottom feeder”, etc).

    Total opponents record: 15 – 16…! Can we say…”CUP…CAKE”…? Lets all say it together!

    I know it hurts…It really hurts when I mention it…!

    Over Rated…5 Clap(San Franciso Style for you)…Over Rated…!

    Not In 2010 BishopNation!

    Your Conscience


    just askin,

    It wouldn’t change my answer but it would make make me laugh if you where a lancer fan while these are some of the same teams you played within the last two years too.

  • kh

    c.o got moved up because they won ,
    amat in baseball got moved down because they couldnt win,see freddy thats why you dont ask why,its all in the puddin buddy,go figure.
    the only teams that belong on the winners list should be s.h. and c.o.
    what has the other teams done dranch acouple runner ups,nobody ever remembers who was second,,,,,
    fred who was second to jesse owens that year in the race.who was second to miss hooties,nobody cares,
    one more fred whos going to be second to bonita in the cif championship,who cares…

  • Frank

    @ not since 1995
    Sounds like a true hater, its funny how many people say Amat is not playing anyone. Yet, no team in sgv has balls to play Amat, outside of Damien and muir. Damien probably won’t play us no more, but Muir showed a lot of heart and is trying to get their team to the next level. Dominguez would probably beat anyone in sgv, except amat. Maybe your team will grow some over the next season, and schedule Amat. Then you can come back and talk about scheduling.

  • just askin’

    SGV FOOTBALL – I think WE’D rather hang our hat on wins in the last 3 seasons over St Bonnie, Olu, Mater Dei, Notre Dame, Crespi, Loyola, Alemany, St Francis, Chaminade, St Paul, and Rancho Cucamonga. That may be more “big” wins in 3 yrs that ChOak has in their history!

  • know your facts

    kh – THAT shows how absolutely ignorant you are – even more than we all thought. Amat won the Trinity league the last year they were in that league. Maybe the OC schools threw them out because of that!


    Good to see you are working on your therapy tonight.Working a little of the community and also see you are protecting a loved one ,but you need to follow a little more closely. You see the exchanges were between the 2 you mentioned and SGVFOOTBALL not COChargerfansgvsb oh excuse me freuding slip , as you wrote. Remember do not keep Amat in focus all the time as you seem to revert back to your idiotic rhetoric and become boring. Expand you horizon come up with new material because your’s is as old as the last title you keep bringing up . Let it go it was 16 years ago and your still hurt by it . We are going to have to work harder on your therapy my son . Rest now as you face another miserable points day of your so called life . But it was nice that you tried to protect your brother COCF. God bless you.

  • know your facts

    of course, the league was called the Serra league then – but you get my drift. Mater Dei, Servite, etc

  • kh revised

    kh said:
    Charter Oak got moved up because they won.
    Amat in baseball got moved down because they couldnt win. See Freddy, thats why you dont ask why! Its all in the puddin buddy, go figure.
    The only teams that belong on the winners list should be South Hills and Charter Oak.
    What have the other teams done? Diamond Ranch a couple runner ups? Nobody ever remembers who finished second!!!
    Fred, who was second to Jesse Owens in the 100 meters in the 1936 Olympics? Who was second to Miss Hooters? Nobody cares.
    One more Fred, whos going to be second to Bonita in the CIF championship? Who cares…?

  • more nonsense

    Nonsense95 –
    show some nads and schedule these “bottom feeders” too:
    Top Division Outright Championships
    Mission Viejo NotSince-Ever
    Servite (before last year – NotSince83
    Lakewood NotSince-Ever
    St. John Bosco NotSince-Ever
    Mater Dei NotSince98
    Alemany NotSince-Ever
    Santa Margarita NotSince-Ever
    Crespi NotSince86
    San Clemente NotSince-Ever
    Tesoro NotSince-Ever
    Edison NotSince80
    Newport Harbor NotSince-Ever
    Loyola NotSince05 (in a year Amat beat them)
    JSerra Catholic NotSince-Ever
    Dana Hills NotSince-Ever
    Notre Dame NotSince-Ever
    Trabuco Hills NotSince-Ever
    Fountain Valley NotSince88
    Compton NotSince-Ever
    Wilson NotSince-Ever
    Huntington Beach NotSince-Ever
    Jordan – NotSince-Ever

  • forest gump

    hacienda league champions and c.i.f. titles will have an * next to their accomplishments just like south hills did years ago when charter oak was placed in a higher division the last time. speaking of which bonita and west covina historically have gotten beat by charter oak years that they were up or down so trying to compare apples to oranges just does not work in this debate.

    you tell me when was the last time either of those schools went through charter oak to win any game of significance in the playoffs and then tell me how many times charter oak went on to win a league championship going through bonita and a c.i.f. championship having to go through west covina.

    dan says the score was much closer than the 35-10 on the scoreboard. check the last time bonita and charter oak both went into their league game undefeated and played for a league championship.

    the very reason why charter oak was moved to the sierra league and inland division is for the argument you cannot make and that is charter oak would be and has been too dominate if and when they were still in this new hacienda league and southeast division. stupid is as stupid does.

    last year bishop amat had the debate with charter oak and now you antagonize this debate with charter oak also. sounds to me fredj just doesn’t like charter oak or always wants to promote hate among schools.

    i can’t imagine charter oak minding if they had the enrollment west covina and bonita does and anyone that says those two schools do not get their share of transfers hasn’t done their homework because both schools have transfers at every level right now.

  • South Hills

    Who is voting for WC, CO, Rowland and DR? Really…


    just askin’,

    Keep hanging that hat on those victories buddy, the real BA fans know deep down inside the pinnacle of success will come with that CIF ring…

    Tired of reading Fred’s would of could of thread so back to business and focusing on Ayala.

  • Interesting…

    Maggiore had all his kids head over to the computer lab at WesCo after practice and vote! LOL…

  • NotSince1995

    BishopNation (aka: just askin)

    Maybe you should hang your HAT on these big games over the last 3 season:
    – CRESPI slapped the M***do out of you : 38 – 25 (2009 season)

    – Notre Dame: OMG…remember that biatch slapping you took from ND? 56 -21…in 2008! Why did you show up?

    – 2007 season when your record was 3 – 7. That was the year that you lost to:
    Alemany 27 – 9
    Crespi 55 – 5…? Field Goal and a Safety…?
    Notre Dame 51 – 30

    These are the Facts…No Ring!

    Remember those Glorious and Proud years BishopNation…? Yeah…Not so proud now…are you?

    6 – 0 with a “CUP…CAKE” schedule

    Hang your HAT on that hook…Pac 5 “Bottom Feeder”…!

    Your Conscience
    Not in 2010 Either

  • bulldog Hunter

    my nephew just showed me on Facebook that the West Covina players are telling everyone to vote LMAO that is too funny!!! HAHAHAHA

  • just askin’

    nonsense95 – if you have the balls to play great teams – sometimes your going to take some – and sometimes you’re gonna dish it out. Or you could play it safe and stick with a season long fish-bowl schedule. we know teams that do that and pretend to be good

  • COChargerfan

    GOOD TO SEE YOU…you’re a fly that just keeps buzzing around my head and no matter how many times I swat you away by saying I’m not your Chupa, you persist. So, every time that you insinuate that I’m the BEST, I’m going to take out the fly swatter to send you back to the dog turd you live on…so here goes again, you’re a nagging, childish idiot that is too stupid to understand that I’m who I say I am…the one and only COChargerfan…So, who are you? Funny that you accuse me of posting under a pseudonym but you’re not enough of a man to use you real screen name.

    If you must, go ahead and persist but I can guarantee you that the swatter is still laying next to my computer.

  • kh

    you can vote all you want,that cif this year will have to beat the bearcats twice,even if you take league we will meet again when it counts,hopefully casey horine will be back, the bearcats will be flying high like he dose.look how fred dosent even put the best team 5-0 on his stupit poll.
    your really starting to show all of us bearcat parents what your all about,never seen us last season in baseball,only went to damien scriggage this year.hey your homies play thur,
    make the l.a. vs bonita game friday night,i am not sure who we play,it dosent matter.

  • Lancer Baseball

    kh, just a quick question or two. When was the last time Bonita was in Div-I baseball? When was Bonitas last Div-I baseball title? And a quick FYI-The year that Amat “culdn’t win” and got “dropped” was also the year that they lost to the eventual “Champion” DOUCHE BAG!!!!

  • Dan

    WC first team “D” is giving up 15 points a game,the rest is given up by back ups, special teams, and turnovers returned for TD’s. So those numbers you put up on us are a bit deceptive. For the most part, WC has not used starters on kick off team, giving them a breather for the game, so lots of inexperienced kids there which has resulted in several Kickoff returns for touchdowns. [We’ve had 4 for the season returned against us, 5 if you count the Claremont scrimmage]. As the crucial league games come, I would guess there will be more starters in on kickoff team. I don’t think CO puts up 31 on our starters, we have a pretty solid “D” this year.
    We have a lot of experience on this team but a lot of key players are juniors and sophomores so we still are not at or near 100% of our potential.
    As for your question of “can our offense score 31 points in a game” We average 36 a game for the season, and as with most good scoring teams it could be higher if the starters stay in longer for some of the games. WC and CO would have been a nice game to see, Maggiore made the call but didn’t get a responce, Maybe big Lou remembers the pounding these boys gave CO as freshmen and is waiting till CO gets one of their stronger classes before he renews the contract lol.

    Forest Gump,
    Your right, most schools get a transfer or two, the difference with CO is that pretty much every one of their key players was from out of district these past couple of years, you had 5 “D” 1 recruits on the field last season that were from out of district, there’s no wrong on CO’s part for that [unless there is undo influence happening], but don’t give me this sad story that CO has a small student population, it doesn’t apply in CO’s case, if you were stuck with just your small population the titles would not be there.

  • Dan

    Bulldog Hunter,
    Are you jealous?

  • lancer Baseball

    Kh, dont our Baseball teams play each other this Saturday @ 1:00pm at your place?
    Should be interesting! You only have Two Football players? Who do you have? You have no one! Youre weak!
    My bet is we will kick your ass, like we would in football.
    No excuses please!!!

  • Observer

    I just saw where West Covina is trying to get everyone to vote for them. Classic!

  • Chalk and Cheese


    You guys focus on Ayala and Bishop Amat will focus on Crespi.


  • COSteelCurtain

    Thee Charter Oak Chargers have the Rings and the Banners.

    CO Family we all should stop wasting our time on all of these great teams that weren’t. DRanch its all yours. Now go finish the job!

    New League, new division. Southeast is history to us. Great memories, but now we must focus on Ayala!

    End of Story

  • GoBulldogs!!!

    To answer the question, NO!! I think everyone knows that it is clearly West Covina’s year to win the Division 7 title. Between their much improved D, and consistent run game. All I know and I think most would agree, is that Chris Solomon will hands down run all over all anybodys defense (Bonita, Bishop Amat, Charter Oak, Diamond Ranch) if given ample opportunity!!! Not only the best running back, but the best player in the valley. Watching this kid run the ball is truly a thing of beauty!! Based on my experience, hands down a Division 1 powerhouse prospect.

  • kh

    you guys running to hide in oc again,
    like sh and you guys both did and both were no place to be seen come championship games like glendora and bonita,the real two baseball power houses,you guys will be missing your two best players for sat, amat vs bonita so will we,like i said the real studs play both sports,
    #1 matty g
    #2 k.c. h
    #3 rio r
    #4 wallace g
    not a bad line up for sgv baseball
    put those kids in your line up and they could change the out come quick,glad my son just dosnt play baseball all year,borrowing,we still do both football and scoutball on sunday,his only time off is after films on sat morning,its alot on kids,but if you want it you have to chance it,pro ball is 6 months long,so train like it,
    now the haters will fire out about something ,waiting

  • Coach Pasadena

    Just saying;

    All this talk between parents and fans don’t mean anything. The time has come for these kids to show what they can do. I can tell you this, that many of you bloggers will be disappointed by loses to a team you truely believed your team could beat. But remember, High school football should be a time in your child life (Not Yours) that he can remember the good old days that he had and not being pressured by some parent who needs more help with inflating his little ego.

  • Cat got ur tongue-kh?

    Hey kh you never even addressed the question. Just in case you forgot here it is with a little commentary at the end….
    When was the last time Bonita was in Div-I baseball? When was Bonitas last Div-I baseball title? And a quick FYI-The year that Amat “culdn’t win” and got “dropped” was also the year that they lost to the eventual “Champion”
    Since you are an SGV baseball guru(?) please enlighten us.

  • Lancer Baseball

    Only Two Studs on your Baseball team this year?
    And none for next year? Good luck loser!!!

  • kh

    who gives a rats ass about you or your dumb?
    we have plently of athletes at bonita,baseball bb football v-ball,your a little punk trying to rattle someones feathers,good luck.inless you play on the team or have a son on the team,go get a life,,,little rattler.theres alot of real good players going back and moving up to varsity this year,
    you guys haveacouple of ok kids and two or three real good kids,so who cares,we had two kids drafted two seasons ago 1 was a first rounder.when was the last time amat had a first rounder,little dickie.anwser that ? NOW

  • Cat still got ur tongue-kh?

    With all your yappin about the great kc, you would think with your vast (ha!) Baseball knowledge, you could answer the very simple(maybe not simple enough) Bonita Baseball questions Lancer boy had about your home team!
    You want a Bonita vs. Amat game to happen, and here it is and you have no comment?
    This is as close as it will ever get for you, so dream away! Well, a Football game will never happen. So give it up for Amat, and say; I give up!
    Baseball Guru my Ass!!!