At least Charter Oak is stepping up and playing a big boy team Rancho Cucamonga. RC WILL beat Charter Oak but in a close one– RC 38-14
Roosevelt is down by the way Fred….. Upland High would own Charter Oak too. CO has a decent QB— they may be a good team in the SGV but INLAND POWER HOUSE is gonna mow them down !!!! MUIR is weak as ever !!!

I’m not a CO fan, but I will cheer them on. I agree a win over RC is a quality win….and that’s exactly what SGV teams need right now! A game against Amat would be ideal in the future, but I don’t think we will ever see that happen after 2 blow outs by Amat.

Muir is getting beat up on the blogs after getting beat up last Friday. If their fans were talking smack then they deserve it. But after taking a look at some figures I have come away with something.

“POUND FOR POUND” they are the best public school team in the SGV.

Before you guys call me the biggest crack smoker ever, just hear me out. Aram and Fred are always talking about enrollment, enrollment, enrollment. Why? Well because it means a lot. The more boys enrolled, the more athletes and linemen-types. It’s why Aram, Fred, and even coaches like Bogan, Farrar, are always pointing to the idea of “like schools” or schools being in “their own world.” It’s why the Sierra teams and the prep writers don’t want the Sierra to be in the Inland Division. Makes sense to me. So here are some numbers. Let’s take the private schools out of this.

Locals:

Charter Oak: 2000 students
South Hills: 2070 students
West Covina: 2880 students
Bonita: 2000 students
Glendora: 2350 students
Arcadia: 3570 students
Monrovia: 1660 students

Inland schools:

Rancho Cucamonga: 3040 students
Upland: 3540 students
Los Osos: 3230 students
Corona Centennial: 2880 students
Corona Santiago: 3850 students
Norco: 2190 students
Vista Murrieta: 3270
REV: 2990 students

So how about Muir? How many students does it have?

1050 students

As in half the size of Charter Oak. As in one-third the size of Rancho. As in almost one-fourth the size of Cor. Santiago.

The fact is they are a small school. A very small school. They are the smallest school in the Southeast by far. By far. And they would be the second smallest school in the Midvalley in front of only Blair (excluding the privates from Olympic.)

What they are able to do with such a small number of kids is amazing! So Fred is right, CO is not Muir. Not even close. Cut CO’s enrollment in half and they aren’t in the conversation. Cut Rancho’s enrollment by two-thirds and they aren’t in the conversation. Yet, when it comes to Muir the subject of enrollment is never mentioned.

The Klitchko bros. would devour Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather, and so would Bernard Hopkins. Why? They are much bigger. But which two fighters have been considered the best pound-for-pound fighters the last 5 years. Pacquiao and Mayweather. Just like Muir is likely the best “pound-for-pound” SGV public school.

Pound for Pound,

That was a great analogy!

RCFOOTBALL,

We got your point you think RC is the gold standard of the Inland blah blah blah. Unfortunatley RC and you have a rude awakening. You guys are not the same team as last year you just dont replace 2000+ yard rushers like Sateki and 1000+ yard recievers like Harden. You guys still do not have a solid running back that has broke the 100 yard mark this year. Im pretty confident your going to be eating crow this year just like the Monrovia fans. Please just do us on favor and dont disappear from the blog once CO takes it to the house on RC.

Ceee-Ohhhh

RCFOOTBALL,

Amat has about 1300 students compared to CO’s 2100 or so.

But your take on other schools proximity and the effect on RC is a bit off as it pertains to CO. They too are effected just as much, and maybe more when you take Amat into consideration.

Within a couple miles of CO they are surrounded by Glendora, San Dimas, South Hills and Covina – while not “Inland powers”, they are all relatively good programs for their size and their boundaries border CO’s on all sides. That’s probably one of the reasons the Chargers “leap frog” those areas and go to the other side of the 605 for their “imports”.

i’m looking forward to following the results this Friday of what should be a good matchup. Good luck to both, but gotta root for the SGV.

Progress,

The Monrovia eating crow part from SGV probably came from all of you fans chanting how Mtown was going to be undefeated and they belong in a higher division. Like you said, it’s only the third game.

SGV gave his opinion as well as you. Does that mean you are also a little off??

SH@T HAPPENS!

RCFootball, no excuses made here my friend. Just responding to Aram and Fred’s video where they mentioned enrollment figures as to why the Sierra shouldn’t be in the Inland. I’ve heard this time and again from various sources: Fred and Aram, coaches, fans, bloggers, etc. Yet I don’t hear the same thing, when it comes to the small schools like Muir, San Dimas, or even Monrovia taking on the likes of much bigger schools.

I’m not saying that is the only reason they lost to you guys or anyone else they loss to or will lose to, what I am saying is for a school that small to still schedule way up (using enrollment) and compete it should be acknowledged.

You guys have to compete with other schools for kids, but all those schools still have tons of kids. “Progress” articulated perfectly why enrollment in fact is very important to a football program’s success, so I don’t have to add to that. And privates are a entirely different matter. Bottom line is enrollment matters, and it’s easy for a school with more than 3k students to say it doesn’t matter.

Again, what Muir is able to do as the smallest public school in the SGV (besides Blair HS also in Pasadena) makes them the best “Pound-for-pound” public school team in the SGV.

Right Fred?

Pound for Pound,

I like the point of more students and you get more lineman and backups. Very good Point.. I hate to say it but I do agree with that point. Honestly our coach had 2 open dates and sent it out on to all high schools in So Cal asking for a game. Props to Muir for being the only one that stepped up and took on the challenge. Now some schools already had games those 2 weeks and could not make it happen, but most schools would not put us on the schedule. That is directly from Coach Baiz.

Now someone earlier saying Co has to compete with San Dimas,Glendora and others. Now Co is the much better team out of all those schools and what I was trying to do is compliment Co by saying they are the best program in the area and the quality players that want to win will usually pick Co before the other schools.

Good luck Friday night. Should be one heck of a game with RC and CO….

School size does matter to public schools that don’t recruit, but is irrelevant in the case of CO and SH. CO and SH openly and hand pick recruits from outside their areas just like private schools. Recruiting eliminates the luck factor in “playing with what god brings you” as Bogan likes to put it. I will say, however, that SH has been on the loosing end of the recruiting trail the last couple years to CO, Amat, and CIF. The recruiting issue is the reason that CO and SH were bounced up to the Sierra last year, it’s CIF’s way of leveling the playing field.

Fred, I understand that. And it makes sense for CIF to do that. Geographic proximity saves gas and creates strong rivalries. Competitive equity is more subjective though, and considers things like program strength, school resources, and the politically-correct term “demographics.”

Demographics is a touchy subject and one where stereotypes can run amok. But facts are facts. African-Americans and whites make up over 98% of NFL players and just shy of that in college. We don’t have to get into why, it is what it is. High school is much more difficult to gauge, but this “concept” generally holds true to form (schools like Amat are outliers here, but again, they’re private).

With that said, my opinion that Muir is the best team “Pound-for-pound” holds true, as only 30% of their population is African-American and 60% is Latino. A drastic difference compared to the past, shaped by the demographic shift you spoke of, which didn’t just happen in San Marino, South Pasadena, and Temple City, but Pasadena as well. A strong case can be made for San Dimas as the best “Pound-for-pound” as well.

Enrollment does play a huge roll, just as “demographics” do. A school with only 1050 students is a very small school. Like I said, the smallest in the SGV, besides Blair. The bottom line is this, Muir and San Dimas do a great job with what they have. Monrovia does too. And when they face the big boys they don’t get the luxury of the “enrollment argument” that is bandied about when the COs, SHs, WCs, and Glendoras do when they lose to the bigger Inland schools. Props to all three.

Dan, I see you posted this right after I expanded on the “demographic” argument, and likely hadn’t seen it yet. I’m not stating that enrollment is the end all be all of this issue. Demographics is extremely important as well, if not more important as you state. (And lets just be completely honest here and admit that “demographics” is just a euphemism for the word “race.”)

However, when Muir faces a Rancho Cucamonga team, who has the same players demographically (if not more so considering they have whites and Pacific Islanders), the enrollment argument takes precedence. A pool of 3000 (1500 when subtracting the girls) should dominate a pool of 1050 (525 w/o girls). But I didn’t hear that after the game. When San Dimas loses to the big boys with similar demographics, I don’t hear that. Yet, when the Sierra schools lose to the big boys (and add WC in there too) I do hear that. In the video above they mention enrollment. Not demographics. Maybe they should. Though, they likely don’t for fear of the negative reaction that would ensue due to people’s sensitivity regarding race.

As for my Top 10 Pound-for-pound, it could be a little off. It’s just a take. Your more than welcome to add yours. Maybe one that includes enrollment and demographics. I’m sure it would be well thought-out and enlightening. In fact, I’d like to see Fred’s and Aram’s as well.

Conq – interesting point. i’d love to hear from the Charter Oaksters which of their studs since the championship years actually went to jr hi in the Charter Oak School District or lived in Charter Oak boundaries. Bet not many

Pound for Pound, Ive been saying the same thing for several years. BTW, per the CA Dept of Education, last year COs enrollment was 1910 kids.

Dan, youre wrong pal. Enrollment is by far the most important factor but there are exceptions, which is why the CIF also has the competitive equity tool. So, instead of attempting to deny that the best public school football teams also happen to be the largest in terms of enrollment at both the individual and district levels, you should thank your lucky stars that the CIF allows WC to play at a level that is contrary to their enrollment sizeso how is a 3000 kid strong WC getting more pound for pound than Covina High or San Dimas with that many kids?

Missing in the discussion is that the COs of the world whom are single high school district dont have the luxury of Intra-District transfers. These types of transfers go entirely uncontested and, thus, are completely ignored by the CIF transfer police. So big school districts are able to pool talent into just a few schools without anyone raising questions, in essence, cherry pick the best talent from a large pool of in-district kids.

Look at Diamond Ranch High School who is one of 4 high schools in the 6,500-kid Pomona Unified District. For years they were the football team of choice for the good players in that district so they excelled while the other 3 schools were pretty bad. With the resurgence of the Pomona High program, the talent is now split and mark my words Diamond Ranchs level of play will suffer greatly.

Another example is Norco High, which is one of 8 high schools in the Corona-Norco Unified Districta district with around 17,000 high school kids. Before I go on, lets put that number in perspectivethe 8 high schools in Covina Unified (South Hills, Covina and Northview), Charter Oak, Glendora, Bonita Unified (Bonita and San Dimas) and Bishop Amat COMBINED only have around 13,000 students. Add Damien to the mix and were up to 14,000still 3,000 less kids than the Corona-Norco Unified District alone. Id like to see how many Corona Centennial players dont live within their boundaries. Actually, I recall that a summer or two ago the Norco blogger was talking about something like 8 players that intra-district transferred into their school from sister high schools. Im betting that this school shopping is rampant in the big school districts.

Back to Norco, they were king for years with like 4000 enrolled kids that is until Roosevelt High opened around 6 years ago. Now, Norco has 2,200 kids and Roosevelt has 3,200. Does anyone really believe that this isnt going to negatively impact Norcos football team? History says sowhat happened to Chino High when Ayala opened and then years later to Ayala after Chino Hills High opened?

Despite the allegations, CO, SH and the rest of these public schools get very few out of district transfers. Forget about CIF transfer/eligibility rules for a minute, a kid has to first get his old school district to allow him/her to transfer and this is getting harder and harder as schools face money problems and dont want to give up the revenue. What naysayers like size matters like to include as transfers are kids that moved into a new district like CO but thats just wrong because they are residents within the school boundaries. And size, the collective CIF didnt bounce CO into the Sierra and, instead, it was their former Miramonte League cohorts (i.e. Principals) that voted them out of the league. Thats the serious flaw in the systemwhen schools with a vested interest and bed-fellows are voting instead of it being done more fairly via some independent panel.

COChargerfan,
Think again, the proof is in the pudding, CO is the perfect example, even though Charter Oak has almost 900 students less than WC look at the athletes that CO gets over there. WC could scan their entire 2880 campus and not find 4 or 5 D1 athletes like CO had these past couple of years, if you see the size of CO or Glendora lines they put out year in and year out, you don’t get that size at WC. We may have 1 or at the most 2 guy’s guy that size, not 3 to 4 like the schools in your area. The reason CO gets those athletes and bigger linemen is because of demographics and transfers and less because of enrollment.
In 2004 when WC won the cif title the heaviest
player on defense was a linebacker who weighed 225 pounds. He was bigger than our defensive linemen. On offense we had 1 kid at 250 every one else was 225 or less. But those kids knew how to battle and play hard and never gave up in a game.
So again I would say that WC does well with what they have, the coaches prepare the kids well for a game and teach the fundamentals extremely well so these kids are ready to go on Friday night.

CoChargerfan,
Of course it’s not the same at all schools, but to put it bluntly, and sorry if this post offends anyboby, but I think it’s true for the most part. In general, as far as public schools go, the more afluent, or at least upper middle class area’s such as CO, or SH, or Glendora, or San Dimas will have more of the bigger, college or pro types of linemen than you find in less afluent areas. In general, you don’t have to comb through 2800 or 3000 kids to find these guys, the same goes with Pasadena or the inner city area’s when it comes to the skill positions. Muir or Monrovia doesn’t have to comb through 3000 kids to find the number of D1 caliber athletes that they get, yet you can go through schools like Alhambra, or Bell Gardens, or Montebello, or Schurr or El Rancho all of which have over 3000 students and you won’t find very many of the d 1 caliber players at those schools. Its because of demographics. You have to comb through a lot more kids of the Hispanic or Asian heritage to get the 6’4″ 280 pound lineman who can run a 5 flat 40. With whites and Blacks that size or caliber of kid is much more common to find than with the previous heritages mentioned. West Covina and Arcadia are kind of middle of the road when it comes that kind of athletic density. If they can continue to keep more of their district kids things will keep getting better.