Steve Ramirez: “West Covina would have beat Bishop Amat this year.”

When you’re the Whittier area reporter and you just witnessed West Covina throwing down 84 on La Serna, what else are you supposed to say? …. I thought about this over the weekend and when both teams are at full strength, my money is still on Amat.

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  • Witness

    Thats a joke and a cheap way to get the Amat bloggers back on this dead blog.
    No Amat, no blog.
    West Covina has no class. Amat will NEVER beat another team by that many points, because it make no sense and is classless on the highest level.
    I LOST ALL RESPECT FOR WEST COVINA FOOTBALL!
    On the field, Amat would not lose to West Covina….What a joke!

  • sdbob

    Obviously you did not watch the game…I did. WC did not run up the score. LS couldn’t tackle an invalid in a phone booth. Their overall approach to the game was poor angles and even poorer tackling techniques. WC ONLY passed 3 times the entire game and that was in the first half. They only ran the ball the second half. Try and see if you can watch the game and see what I saw…an over-matched opponent that spent it all the week before to just get to the big game and had nothing in the tank for the end.
    So before you get all righteous on us…check out the facts. Jeesh!

  • Witness

    I watched it and WeCo had their starters in all the way in to the 4th qtr. NO CLASS!

  • BULLDOG TIA

    @Witness,
    first of all get over yourself. second, YES, West Covina would have beat Bishop THIS year. No doubt about it & you know it. Don’t be mad. Now as for WC having no class…you obviously weren’t at the game where they scored 84 points bcuz if u were there you would have seen that it was pretty much what they had to do. Score, score, score. La Serna just made it that easy. WC had no choice but to play & score. What were they supposed to do you ding-dong? WC Bulldogs have alot of class. You have no idea what you are talking about. Oh by the way,I guess u fell for the cheap way to get you to respond on this blog…cuz you did!

  • http://www.twitter.com/SGVtylerd tDro

    Quite simply, Bishop Amat was not an elite team this year. No way, no how. Jalen Moore is certainly one of the better players around, but even he didn’t get the ball enough in their biggest games. 15 carries against Loyola? 5 carries against Santa Margarita? To me, I look at what Amat does and there is not a single thing they do that makes you say, ‘Wow.’ They are a solid team, but by no means an elite team.

    Meanwhile, I look at West Covina and they do something that makes you say, ‘Wow.’ They run the football better than any team in the Valley. They do it without smoke and mirrors. It is very much ‘This is what we do, you’re not going to stop it.’

    The argument for years has been that Amat is an ‘elite’ team compared to those within the Valley. The truth is they are consistently amongst the top teams, but to enter every year and regardless of result say that they are the best is a disservice to them and to the other teams in the area. That is why I’d agree with Steve. Amat is not an ‘elite’ team this year. Thus, I look at a couple area teams and have no doubts they could not only compete, but beat, the Lancers. West Covina and Charter Oak among them. A team like Monrovia would also cause problems.

  • Witness

    First of all, this has nothing to do with me, so I am unable to get over myself. Second, Little West Covina wouldn’t have beat Amat this year(No need to go in to that). West Covina is in such a weak league that anything less than a Championship would have meant a lost season. Go ahead and pump your chest and have your victory party, because it really doesn’t mean much to me. Id rather play Pac5 ball and lose then play pop warner and win.
    84 points…just ridiculous!

  • Fred Robledo

    TDro, you covered West Covina against Loyola, did West Covina make you say, “wow.” … Let’s not bring up injuries either, Bishop Amat played most of the year with key guys injured..

  • Gerogie of LM

    La Mirada played Bishop Amat , West Covina and La Serna.
    I would have to say BA, would be the winner in a fairly close game. BA substituted their starters late in the 3rd quarter against us. And they did have some starters out for that game. With WC, we were still in the game in the early 4th quarter(down by 8)then WC ran us over. But they are both very good teams. I saw the La Serna game and did not think WC ran up the score intentionally. LS could not tackle, block or run against WC. What was WC supposed to do, take a knee? in the 3rd quarter.

  • sgvpride

    Fred, don’t bring up injuries..you just did.

  • Anonymous

    Witness,
    The Bulldogs pulled their starters out in the beginning/mid 3rd quarter. THEY STILL SCORED. Add in a Pick-6 and a kickoff return. La Serna was all over the place, just giving West Co points. As for Bishop Amat beating West Covina. I highly doubt it. Yes Bishop does have Jalen Moore. But I would pick Chris Solomon over Moore, ANYDAY. And then they have Salgado and Frazier. You say “Little West Covina wouldn’t have beat Amat this year”. Little? West Covina makes up in size by lifting. La Mirada was supposed to be too big for them too. West Co ran all over them. The Bulldogs’ defense was also clicking by the end of the season. I don’t see Jalen Moore getting over 100 yards rushing. As for the passing, don’t throw it to Lonzel Barnett’s side. He can shut down any of the Lancers’ WR. West Co looked like an “elite” team this season. And Bishop didn’t. Sorry.

  • Lance R

    “Just when I thought I was out they keep dragging me back in” GF3 for those of you who know the Movie. We walked away from the blog our football season is over but now here come another Amat comparison. Don’t compare Amat if you think Amat is not a a elite team??..Steve as slow as you are, how long did that take you to state those nine words and how long did it take you to write them down. WC plays a whole different area of Football. This comparison hinges on what? a WC team that ran up 80 some points on the Whittier Redskins Jr. Midget team of La Serna. WC went against a Serra team Loyola and look what happened to them. The running backs of WC granted are good not taking anything away from them but they are not going against Pac 5 teams like Amat does in league. True we are not a elite team in the Pac 5 but Amat is whole different animal when it comes to going head to head with the other SGV teams. You want hits for your blog that’s fine but go get them another way. Steve go Christmas shopping your stretching it here.

  • http://www.twitter.com/SGVtylerd tDro

    Yeah, Freddy. Covered West Covina-Loyola. Let’s not talk about the injuries to their starting QB, starting WR, reigning Trib PoY, AND senior RB Jimmy Frazier… Fair.
    I don’t think there is a single team in the Valley that can play with a PAC-5 team minus their starting QB, starting WR, starting RB, reigning Trib POY (RB and S, Solomon)… West Covina-Loyola would be a much betetr game late in the year. Loyola beat Amat w/ Rio Ruiz going down early. I understood the difficulty in trying to win a game w/o their starting QB. Imagine them having to play that game w/o Jalen Moore, Zachary Shay, and Adam Sanchez.
    Not making excuses for West Covina. Here is where it’s at in my mind: West Covina is a better team late in the year than Bishop Amat. It coincided with Chris Solomon getting back to full strength as well as getting a number of other guys healthy. Amat went through the season 6-5, including giving away a game against a sub-par Sherman Oaks Notre Dame team. To me, that doesn’t indicate they are the same ‘elite’ team as in year’s past. Make all the claims you’d like, but the truth of the matter is nobody should be beating their chests after a 6-5 season. I don’t care if you played LSU, Alabama, and Arkansas… You are what you’re record says you are. Nowhere does 6-5 say Amat is an ‘elite’ team. Does this mean West Covina is better? Not necessarily. Does it mean West Covina can’t compete with Amat? Not at all. If Amat’s standards really are so low that a 6-5 season is a success then that does not bode well for SGV football. A successful Amat makes the SGV that much better. 6-5 is not a success.

  • http://www.twitter.com/SGVtylerd tDro

    Yeah, Freddy. Covered West Covina-Loyola. Let’s not talk about the injuries to their starting QB, starting WR, reigning Trib PoY, AND senior RB Jimmy Frazier… Fair.
    I don’t think there is a single team in the Valley that can play with a PAC-5 team minus their starting QB, starting WR, starting RB, reigning Trib POY (RB and S, Solomon)… West Covina-Loyola would be a much betetr game late in the year. Loyola beat Amat w/ Rio Ruiz going down early. I understood the difficulty in trying to win a game w/o their starting QB. Imagine them having to play that game w/o Jalen Moore, Zachary Shay, and Adam Sanchez.
    Not making excuses for West Covina. Here is where it’s at in my mind: West Covina is a better team late in the year than Bishop Amat. It coincided with Chris Solomon getting back to full strength as well as getting a number of other guys healthy. Amat went through the season 6-5, including giving away a game against a sub-par Sherman Oaks Notre Dame team. To me, that doesn’t indicate they are the same ‘elite’ team as in year’s past. Make all the claims you’d like, but the truth of the matter is nobody should be beating their chests after a 6-5 season. I don’t care if you played LSU, Alabama, and Arkansas… You are what your record says you are. Nowhere does 6-5 say Amat is an ‘elite’ team. Does this mean West Covina is better? Not necessarily. Does it mean West Covina can’t compete with Amat? Not at all. If Amat’s standards really are so low that a 6-5 season is a success then that does not bode well for SGV football. A successful Amat makes the SGV that much better. 6-5 is not a success.

  • Fred Robledo

    I look at it this way TDro, If West Covina had to play Santa Margarita in the first round of the Pac-5 and Amat was in the Southeast, same outcome. West Covina out in the first round and Amat champion, right? I don’t know why I brought this up, guess it was a slow blog day :)

  • Witness

    @tDro, No one is saying that Amat is a elite team and we are beating our chest with a 6-5 season. I am saying that West Covina would not beat Bishop Amat this year, not last year or even in a few years. Go ahead and say what you want, but we all know the truth.
    It would be like Tyson vs PacMan. Fun to watch, but you know what would happen.
    Im done with this thread.
    84 points…smh

  • http://www.twitter.com/SGVtylerd tDro

    I agree with that. West Covina would have been out in the First Round against Santa Margarita. Amat would have likely cruised through the Southeast.
    Truth is Amat is great for the SGV. They make for great football discussion and certainly prior history indicates they are a perennial top team in the area. That said, each year they should come into the season needing to prove themselves. They shouldn’t sit back and say, ‘We’re the best, still, regardless of what we do this year.’ That is just arrogant and ignorant. Strip Amat of the pagentry and the mystique and just watching them this year revealed they are an extremely ordinary team. They have good athletes (Moore, Ruiz, Sanchez, Daniels). They were by no means ‘elite’ though and that’s kind of my issue with them. A sense of superiority permates the ‘Amat Nation’ if you will. All fine if we’re talking about the history of SGV football. No doubt they stack up well there. That said, THIS year, THIS team was by no means above West Covina, Charter Oak and potentially Monrovia. They were an average team when they played and it showed in their 6-5 record. They could’ve been better, they weren’t. West Covina has athletes to match Amat and neither school’s linemen stand out above the rest. Same with Charter Oak who seemed to have all the athletes in the world. Ellis McCarthy would give Amat troubles as well although I think that would be a game that Amat would win.
    The point is: Amat= not ‘elite’.. We don’t need to treat them as such. This year, they weren’t. I have no problem with people arguing that Amat would beat West Covina. You could definitely make that argument. The fact that some people refuse to even consider it speaks to the sentiment that Amat is ‘elite.’

  • Fred Robledo

    Depends on how you define elite, elite in terms of Division 1 football, no way, not close yet. You’re right about that. Elite in the San Gabriel Valley? Absolutely, they haven’t lost to an SGV team for more than 10 years. BTW, who was the last SGV team to beat Amat, anybody know? When Charter Oak and South Hills left the Miramonte and Southeast, I knew this would happen to them too. By playing in a tough league, tough schedule and not doing anything in the playoffs, they look ordinary compared to West Covina, Monrovia and Rio Hondo Prep. Truth is, Charter Oak might have beaten West Covina in the title game, and South Hills beat Monrovia. When Charter Oak and South Hills were pushed out of the Southeast by area athletic directors and principals, it never sat right with me. If you want to beat Charter Oak, then beat them in the playoffs on the field, don’t send them away to make it easier. Don’t vote them out, win a title, then declare yourself better, which is what a lot of bloggers love to do. Look, I would have taken West Covina over Charter Oak this year, but area principals and ADs wanted to lighten up the division, so Friday you got what you got, a completely mismatched championship game.

  • Looking Forward not backwards

    In My opinion, there is no doubt Amat is the best “program” in the SGV. They do not have the best Athletes. My theory as I stated on the top 25 thread, is that the “Gap” between Amat everyone else is closing, and closing fast. If you compare Amat teams from the 60′s-2000 and the rest of the SGV, and from 2000 on, Amat is slowly Digressing and digressing with talented players still on the roster. when Rio(is a fine QB) and Moore came in they were the two best players at their positions in the valley and potential to be among the best in their section, yet they are not winning. I don’t know what it is, but it is happening. I think its time for SGV teams to sack up and schedule them, and Bishop should except. We have teams here who will make great week 0-3 games. They should dedicate those weeks to the SGV and the others to a Powerhouse like Corona Cent and 1 Pac 5 power. Win this schedule, nothing can be said. you have covered all your basis.

    0-Monrovia easy win right
    1-West Covina easy win right
    2-Charter Oak Battle for 1# right
    3-Tesoro they love it out here
    4-Upland test
    5-Damien private school rivalry
    6-Alemany
    7-Loyola
    8-Sherman Oak ND
    9-Crespi
    10- Bye

  • Joe Amat

    tDro,

    i challenge you to go somewhere and find someone who wrote Amat was “elite”. i’m not sure I’ve read that anywhere. maybe you could point it out. i also have yet to read an Amat blogger on a regional blog proclaiming Pac5 superiority. fortunately, the Amat FAMILY is smarter than that.

    Just like the OC bloggers from El Toro, Tustin, la habra, and the like are saavy enough not to claim to be betterr than the non-playoff aorange alutheran or Mater Dei. For some reason, they know better…and for some reason in the Fish Bowl, we do not understand.

    But this is an SGV blog and comparisons are made bewteen SGV teams and “polls” or your lists compa school to each other. NOT to other teams in their division. I see no other Pac5 schools in our year end polls, so it’s difficult to understand why that is part of the converstion when discussing how ieams compare *in the valley*.

    I pointed out on Arams blog the cannibilism that really eats away at the SGV’s perspective. Don’t want to cut n paste…go there and respond if you care to. But essentially, the SGV schools feel pretty good about recent championships. Championships that may largely due to the removal of schools like El Dorado, Trabuco Hills, Lompoc, Nordhoff, Morro Bay, Paraclete, Torrance and Orange that are no longer in your way to send you home early? True…or not?

    Now that schools can “feel good” about winning a championship, it’s a bit easier to take a shot against someone in e higher division who is not. But when they face Amat head-to-head…it seems to always turn out the same. Then we hear, “…I know we played them LAST year…but if we played them THIS year…”

  • Joe Amat

    Looking forward not backward,

    Been the done that….may do it again. Among those schools afreddie said we’ve defeated this decade in at least two year sweeps are West Covina, Charter Oak, Diamond Ranch, Damien, Glendora, Rancho Cucamonga, St Paul, St Francis. And you know what everyone said when we swept THEM? the schedule was too soft, we beat up on the SGV teams and we needed to branch out.

    There is really no pleasing anyone because after they get swept, teams miraculously get better and then get to proclaim, “… Well, if we played them THIS year!”

  • http://www.twitter.com/SGVtylerd tDro

    I absolutely respect your opinion Joe. The ‘elite’ tag comes from Amat’s belief that they are untouchable within the SGV. That’s my argument. They are not the ‘elite’ of the SGV this year. That is based entirely on me watching them play this year. That is not to say they aren’t one of the top teams in the SGV this year because they are. But, an ‘elite’ team with a fanbase that buys into that believes that Amat is untouchable within the SGV. They point to year’s past as proof. To me, that means little. From what I saw on the field THIS year, Amat is not the best team in the Valley. You can certainly make the argument that they’d beat West Covina or Charter Oak, but the fact that no one can engage even in a discussion of such a matter based on Amat’s “history” is what I think is wrong. Tell me, how did Amat stand out this year? On the field, what did they do that showed they are the ‘elite’ team in the SGV that nobody can hang with? To me? Nothing.

  • Fred Robledo

    TDro, Amat’s biggest win this season was against Crespi on the road? Is there a team in the Valley with a bigger win on the resume than Crespi?

  • Fred Robledo

    Or try this one, is there a team in the Valley that would have beat Loyola, Alemany, Santa Margarita, Notre Dame or Servite?

  • http://www.twitter.com/SGVtylerd tDro

    I think if it’s getting to the point where we are measuring Amat’s success by who they lost to then we’re all in trouble.
    In year’s past, beating St. Bonaventure or Mater Dei those were indications that Amat was playing on a higher level. NOT losing to Alemnay or Servite. The point is West Covina, Charter Oak and Monrovia could all go get it handed to them by Servite or Santa Margarita. That’s not proof that Amat is better than everyone in the SGV because their losses come to better teams. Losing is losing. I can tell you Notre Dame was not the Notre Dame of year’s past. I watched Notre Dame when they had West Horton, Dayne Crist, Jeff Dickman, Anthony Macdonald… This year’s Notre Dame team was a shell of its former self. And Amat still lost in a game that they should’ve won. A game they needed to win. They didn’t. Does that prove that they are better than the other top teams in the SGV? No.
    A discussion can be made that West Covina with a few next-level athletes would beat Amat. Same for Charter Oak. If Amat played Monrovia, who would be the best player on the field? I can tell you they wouldn’t be wearing blue.
    Amat can measure its season by who they lose to and how ‘respectable’ they kept it. That’s nice. To me, it says nothing of whether they can contain Jimmy Frazier or Chris Solomon. It says nothing to me of whether they would be able to stop Travis Santiago. THIS year’s Amat team (coaches included) were not ‘elite’ with respect to the SGV. Therefore, it should not be a foregone conclusion that Amat would win. Not to say, they couldn’t. But certainly they have NOTHING, NOTHING to point to to say that THIS year’s team was simply head and shoulders above every other team in the SGV.

  • http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvfootball Aram Tolegian

    Fred,

    You brought it up because yet again you’re still stunned when somebody says something that we all know COULD be true — West Covina COULD beat Amat. Charter Oak WOULD beat Amat. You even said that yourself. Monrovia WOULD run with Amat.

    After all, Amat is starting two South Hills kids on defense and a Los Altos kid. Meanwhile, WestCo is starting an Amat kid at linebacker (Turner). If you took West Covina’s starting defense and moved them to Amat, guess what, more than half of the Amat kids would be losing their starting jobs.

    Meaders, Castro, Henderson, Barnett, Solomon, Ojala, Turner ALL would be starters at Amat.

    Do the same with CO’s skill guys. Santiago starting at Amat? What about Gilchrist, Bobo and Vaughns? Moore is the only guy who would be keeping his starting job if you took the CO skill guys and moved them to Amat and that would be with Scoby getting some time behind him.

    Sorry, but that’s how it is. Amat is no different at the line of scrimmage than the teams I named. And skill player-wise, they’re either even, slightly ahead or slightly behind.

    Now personally, I think West Covina would be in a little trouble against Amat because West Covina couldn’t pass. And you cannot be one dimensional against upper-division teams.

    I know, I know, time for Fred and Amat people to go back to talking about the past. Someday you will all admit that there are years other Valley teams can beat Amat. And some years they can’t. Maybe we’ll find that out next year in Week 3 … or maybe not. But it’s not far fetched enough for Fred to make an entire blog post out of it. That’s for sure.

  • Fred Robledo

    Santiago starting at Amat would be interesting, but if they used him the way they used Rio most of the year, not sure how it would have turned out much different. Remember what Chris Rix said when he compared the two, so it’s not automatic that Santiago would start at Amat. As for all those other guys you mentioned, they look great against the teams they play, but how great will they look against Santa Margarita, Servite and all the heavyweights. Amat is extremely well coached for the talent it has, you can’t overlook that in a head-to-head game. The point I was making is not that Amat would AUTOMATICALLY beat West Covina or Charter Oak this year, but I would still PICK Amat in both. I could be wrong. But to dismiss Amat as second rate compared to West Covina and Monrovia is silly too. Hey, basketball threads are boring, that’s why we talk about this stuff.

  • amat Forever

    Aram…

    You really think Santiago is better than Rio, against the good teams, Santiago had bad games, against bad teams Santiago lit up the sky…Rio against the best teams, Servite, Crespi, Santa Margarita…played his best, and kept Amat hopeful. He was a warrior against SM coming off the injury and being gone for 3 weeks. Harry Welch complimented him saying he was the best QB they had faced all year, Troy Thomas stated the same that to beat Amat you had to contain Rio…and we all know how Crespi feels about Rio, Rio was the only QB to beat them in back to back years and at Crespi…Not Rio’s fault his numbers are not huge because Hagerty has no offensive skills and no flow. When Salter had to take over the defense, that left Hagerty running the offense and he misused Rio…one of the best athletes in the Valley in many years…basically it looks like he tried to show case Jalen this year, when he should have been show casing Rio and all the recievers Amat had…But if you switch Rio and Santiago I think Rio gives CO a better chance at winning, because Rio performed best against the best teams true D1 corners and LB and coaches who have won at the highest levels…Too Bad Rio had Hagerty for his coach

  • Real talk

    I think Amat would beat Co and WC. What some of you forget to mention is the toughnest that it takes to compete in the PAC 5. I have seen Co look plain soft against upland if that was Amat you would have not seen that. Amat is way more aggressive of a team because they need to be to be in the PAC 5 you see WC or any team in the SGV does not have to be because they play soft teams.

  • oldschool

    charter oak secondary looked very weak against Upland. Amat secondary faced top receivers all year. solomon from west co would start anywhere. montes,blue,daniels,ruiz ,alcantara are very good players.montes is getting many D1 offers. Rio would get offers also if he wasnt a major league prospect.daniels,blue and alcantara are juniors.blue and daniels are being scouted also. it is highschool football.any team in the top 5 in this area can beat each other. Amat did lose alot of games but,we all know if Rio did not get hurt they would of beat notre dame and loyola. Amat is just used to playing tougher teams,that would be the deciding factor. charter oak will get alot better in the future because now they are playing tougher teams .

  • eastsider

    as much as west covina dominated they still where not considered in a state bowl.Helix is playing the division 2 state bowl with one loss in there schedule.Vista got snubbed because of there uneligible player.westlake is playing in the open against de la salle and santa margarita is playing against bellarmine.

  • Frank

    The wording of the quote is the problem, you could say “West Covina could beat Amat this year”, as anything is possible. Yet, to say that they “would” is making a claim that is for sure. Now the problem with comparing these teams is that they didn’t play the same level of competition, oustside of Loyola and La Mirada. If Amat had the schedule of West Co, Amat would be ub the same position as West Co. But, if West Co played Amats schedule would they be in the same position as Amat. Would West Co have been able to hang with Santa Magarita till late in the fourth qtr, or be down 28-14 near the end of the 3rd qtr against Servite? We really don’t know since they dont play. To say how much better West co players looked or that they would be starting at Amat is another Fallacy. Also I am not taking nothing from West Co players, but what I’m saying is you can’t make those comparisons since they dont play the same level of competition. How many second string Amat players have gone to other school and ended up looking like studs? I wonder why? It easier for a man to walk through the kiddie pool with ease, but if you take that same man and put him in 4 feet of water he will not walk as fast. I hope you get the point.
    As for Charter Oak, are they even in the equation any more after the way they got obliterated by Upland. Amat at least gave a battle to Servite and Santa margarita who are ranked higher than Upland.
    Also Congratulations to West Co and M-town on their CIF titles. Even through all the smack talking we are all proud of you guys.

  • http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvfootball Aram Tolegian

    Fred! You said Charter Oak would beat Amat on the PrepXtra Postgame Show after you watched CO smash Chino Hills. Now you’re back to taking Amat again? This is amazing!

    When any you want to stop talking mystique and irrelevant intangibles and want to start talking about PLAYERS ON THE FIELD, then let me know.

    You Amat fans realize you’re bragging about South Hills players in Montes and Varela, right? And you do realize Velasquez was a Los Altos kid, right? Funny how they get the toughness part but the rest of the kids from the same neighborhoods don’t.

    Hate to break it to all of you, Amat pools its talent from places like West Covina, Covina and La Puente. They’re not brought in from somewhere else outside of SoCal.

  • Frank

    Actually Amat kids are from all over the SGV. Nobody is saying that the kids at Amat have something innately special about them. The difference is that they are used to playing tougher competition. That doesn’t mean kids from other schools wouldn’t be able to go to Amat and do the same thing.

  • Looking forward not backwards

    On a more serious note, I am going to have to agree with Tdro. While Bishop Amat fans are gloating, the moving up or down is coming this year. If the Serra Remains in the Pac 5 Bishop has one more year to right the ship. After that Realignment is coming up after next season. When the dust settles, Bishop Amat may very well find themselves in a league that does not participate in Pac 5 competition and more than likely that is going to be in the Mission or bring St Francis to the serra in the Western Div IV. While lancer nation was focused on SGV prestige, the other schools in lower Divisions got better, They have dominated their divisions, and now they want a seat at the Pac 5 table. It’s like playing a game of cutthroat Dominoes in the hood, Losers have to get up from the table. Bishop has had a lot of time on the D1 scene, and is not winning and has become well…well a easy first rd game for some South OC team.

  • Dan

    TDro makes some great points, where this discussion takes a wrong turn is when posters on here act as if there would be no chance that a WC or a CO could beat Amat this year. As if it were silly that the discussion should even happen.
    Is Amat amongst the best in the SGV? Every Year! Are they number one head to head in the SGV for this year? Maybe! Are they elite over the rest of the SGV this year? Not unless you consider WC and CO elite also. The only way to know, year by year is for the teams to play.
    People smirk when we say we are better now than when we played Amat, would you not agree that West Co in 2010/2011 is a better team
    than the years we played Amat? With heavy injuries we still played a tough game vs Amat in 09, the score was 14 to 7 into the 4th quarter. We had six brand new players in that game because of the 4 starters that were hurt.
    How would that game have turned out if we were healthy? Who knows. All I know is teams used to get around the corners on us, or once they got thru the first level it was off to the races, in other word we didn’t handle speed very well, but that is not the case anymore, not with Solomom, or Frazier, or Barnett, or Henderson, or Vilches, or Turner, or Ojala,or Salgado roaming in the back seven. Our defense could close on the ball, much quicker these past two years. The lines we had last year and after the midpoint of this year were by far the best at WC in this decade. Solomon and Frazier this year probably the two best backs I’ve seen at WC, and they were in the same backfield. Would we beat Amat? I don’t know, I didn’t get a chance to see them this year, and I respect the tough brand of ball at Amat, till we beat a good Pac 5 team on the field all I can say is I would have liked our chances.

  • Joe Amat

    Looking forward not backward,

    I’ve got news for you. According to you, I guess no one else is “winning” in the Pac 5 either. It’s been longer than Amat since Edison, Crespi, or Fountain Valley has won and schools like St John Bosco, Alemany, Notre Dame, Lakewood, and even San Clemente, Tesoro, or Mission Viejo have not won a championship in the highest division. Guess what…ask Bob Johnson…it’s pretty damn hard. And like Tom Hanks said in League of Their Own…”the hard is what makes it good.”

    The only schools to win a top division championship since Amat are Long Beach Poly, Mater Dei, Loyola, Orange Lutheran, Servite, Los Alamitos, and now Santa Margarita. That puts Amat 8th on the list of “what have you done for me lately” schools in the Pac 5.

    As to Amat, they’re going nowhere as far as the Serra goes. Over the past four years they’ve fared better than Crespi, Notre Dame, or Loyola, and if you really think anyone is going to move Loyola, Alemany, Notre Dame or Crespi out of the Pac 5 either, you’re more delerious than I earlier thought.

  • Looking forward not backwards

    Like I said The Tribune, just dropped a thread on realignment. We Should move this conversation over to that thread…Guess what league and what team is being discussed as a possibly receive their walking papers out of the pac 5. You guessed it…the Serra and Bishop Amat. Slow your role before you poke your eye out with the that toothpick you call a lancer. I am officially putting Joe Amat on Suicide watch for the 2012 season. If bishop has another year like this one, it could be Div IV for you. Did you hear what Big Bob said…Bishop Amat was on life support before SM game this year, and next year’s team is going to be far less talented and maybe smaller than this years team. Santa Margarita is just another “New Team” in the Pac 5 to win a title and they sliced through Bishop to do it.

  • Joe Amat

    Dan,

    You’ve followed long enough to know that at the beginning of every season and prior to every game we’ve played against valley schools, I’ve said that they are all games that Amat “could” lose.

    The reality though, is that hasn’t happened…and a bunch have had a crack at it. Once might be chance, twice raises the probablity, three times is a trend…and twenty something wins to a lonely loss to the Ian Johnson led Damien Spartans makes the outcome worth betting the farm on….or at least blogging about.

    Maybe those smarter than I can explain why that is. Aram comes to mind since he seems so sure that would now happen. Either the answer is Amat is the luckiest school in the valley, simply the smartest at scheduling….or what no one wants to really admit.

    Really, for all those teams to have a two year window, and some teams that want more (while others opt out and some…or one that “would surely have beaten us this year”…asking out a year early) , year after year, team after team, have a shot to beat the Lancers, yet…It. Just. Doesn’t. Happen.

    Aram. Tell us why?

  • BB

    Don’t question about Steve on anything, because he is right about everything, right, Steve? :)

    Whittier just got its ass handed to them in a record defeat. Someone’s gotta try and take the shame away.

  • My Pay Joey

    Got to say Joey it’s been one of those years when Aram adds to the stupidity that reins supreme on the blog these days and makes the Fish Bowl sink to high heaven.

    I’ve been a critic of Hags from time to time thsi year because of the schedule and more so because of Rio’s baseball issue but I’ll admit I’m on the outside going in and coaches “rarely if EVER” get stupid over night. Needless to say Hagerty has the biggest area wins since teh blog ahs been up so who am I to question him, lol.

    That being said most Fish Bowl experts forget one thing, sorry, I meant to be honest here. Most bloggers measure themselves by how close they came say “could” instea dof “would”…how stupis is that?

    Monrovia lost games to people Bishop Amat beats in their sleep. CO hasn’t beaten a great team in how many years and Covina is what exactly? A great game for WC? Seriously, is any one taking notes here?

    Just look at last year’s blue print for a WC Dynasty. Remove SH and CO and beat Boniat in a rematch because a kid drops a ESPN “DO OVER” INT !!! Seriously, that’s laughable!

    Bishop Amat’s schedules breaks any team in the Valley. Breaks them emotionally, mentally and spiritually, and that’s a historical fact! No need to rehash WC “almost” efforts, Damien’s “close 3 qts” or DR “Reffing lmost”…the fact is Bishop Amat wins alot of Fish Bowl games for a reason…mental toughness, game preparation and level of historical competition.

    Aram is a surprising tool to say the least but what can you say about a man who gushes over himself in ways that would make Liberace cringe, lol. Seriously, to say you’re the best sports writer in the SGV or to say the SGV Tribune writers beats the Mid Valley News “guys” ALL DAY….EVERY DAY is the equivilent to saying WC, Monrovia or CO would survive the PAC 5 because they beat SD and La Serna.

    Dan a good man but in all fairness Dan Pac 5 schools take the gas off when they beat you up. My opinion is simple after seeing WC last year …crappy offense big runs big scores big wins. Not impressed at all. Sorry. Beating that offense takes coaching skill not players. Pac 5 has them in spades.

    Enjoy teh conversation boys but this is stupid unless some one actally beats Bishop Amat or schedules 3 Pac 5 schools and goes 2-1…NOT LIKELY.

    Do me a favor Aram if you and Fred are shilling for hits don’t get mad when real footabll men talk about reality. Man up and actually say something that can be respected rather than gushed over. My brother “coached” up Ryan Longoria at Cathedral and that boy was so scared of Bishop Amat it was pathetic. Look at the film. Still my brother got him All League honors..so no hate here. Just the facts!Like I told Ryan that night “This is BIG BOY BALL SON”…thought he knew.

  • Colt74

    The title of the thread CLEARLY states THIS YEAR.
    But again, all references to BA’s wins over valley teams were yesteryear. Why is that? When did BA play Glendora 04-05 And the same for Charter Oak? And in one win did Bishop Amat only beat Glendora by 7? By seven is the same reference as someone posted as being Tyson over Pacman? So Tyson wining only by a split decision would be something to brag about? Seriously?

    Did West Covina brag about beating Los Altos LAST YEAR? No.
    In the years that BA was beating Glendora, West Covina, and South Hills those were not ( with the exception of WesCo’s visit to the semis one year ) exactly BANNER years for those teams. But still it lists those wins right on top of BA’s resume.

    Did BA play Charter Oak OR West Covina the years that the were winning championships? No.
    So BA can claim for all intent and purposes ( and does ) to be the king of the fish-bowl.

    But then again, would it not be easy to stay king if you don’t play other teams when those other teams are at THEIR best?

    Hence Steves’s observation that West Covina would have beat BA “THIS YEAR”. I saw both teams play THIS YEAR and would agree in a heartbeat. Bishop Amat had NOTHING on West Covina THIS YEAR.

    I know…West Covina is not Pac 5 so they couldn’t have won……

    And Joey, you say that you were not impressed by West Covina. I’m a BA fan and I can seriously say the same for my views on BA this year. But I WAS impressed by West Covina.

    I find it hilarious that BA does not want to be defined by their score against Servite but want to define West Covina by their score against Loyola. And West Covina played that game without many key players. What was BA’s reason again?

    Just my observation. Sorry if you don’t agree.

  • Colt74

    correction in paragraph 2. Meant to say Charter Oak.

  • Nothing serious

    Colt 74

    Agreed. I saw two games of each team. Not impressed with BA but WC fired on all cylinders this year. BA was just a team in that fish bowl and what did they really prove this year?

    The talent pool is spreading around the SGV now and BA isn’t the team they think they are.

    It would have been interesting to see WC vs. BA or Co. Ask Damien is they thought BA was all that? Not impressive at all.

    I took in the VM/CC game, and that was impressive and loaded with huge talent.

    Guys like Joe will always think they are king of the fish bowl.. He’s one guy with an opinion even if its distorated some. Who really cares?

  • Case Closed

    How about we switch leagues in “fantasy land” for a quick second.

    West Covina, Monrovia and who ever else plays Bishop Amat’s scheduel for two years.

    Forget that, too much thinking for bloggers to do.

    Dan jump in any time. Let’s take last year because LAST YEAR WC was even STRONGER with a senior QB and Solomon completely healthy.

    Still with me boys and girls…lol

    Does Hagerty and the Lancers almost choke in a rematch against Bonita?

    Case closed.

  • Case Closed

    How about we switch leagues in “fantasy land” for a quick second.

    West Covina, Monrovia and who ever else plays Bishop Amat’s scheduel for two years.

    Forget that, too much thinking for bloggers to do.

    Dan jump in any time. Let’s take last year because LAST YEAR WC was even STRONGER with a senior QB and Solomon completely healthy.

    Still with me boys and girls…lol

    Does Hagerty and the Lancers almost choke in a rematch against Bonita?

    Case closed.

  • Case Closed

    How about we switch leagues in “fantasy land” for a quick second.

    West Covina, Monrovia and who ever else plays Bishop Amat’s scheduel for two years.

    Forget that, too much thinking for bloggers to do.

    Dan jump in any time. Let’s take last year because LAST YEAR WC was even STRONGER with a senior QB and Solomon completely healthy.

    Still with me boys and girls…lol

    Does Hagerty and the Lancers almost choke in a rematch against Bonita?

    Case closed.

  • looking forwards not backwards

    Bishop Amat Can’t be hands down better than everyone else. Lets look

    Bishop Amat was tied 7-7 with Damien at the Half, won the game 28-7

    Charter Oak was leading 28-7 at the half and Went on to win 41-28

    Bishop Amat Was Help to 3 pts by loyola
    West Covina Scored a TD, however they were missing key players which hurt them on O and D.

    Bishop Scored 49 on LM
    West Co Scored 60

    This is how it breaks down…If WC plays Bishop in weeks 0-7, they lose. Too many injuries, Same Results as the loyola game. If Bishop Plays WC in weeks 7-14, West Covina wins. Factor Rio’s injury, Shay, losing a lineman etc. The Level that West Covina was playing at towards the end of the year leads me to believe they could win that game by a TD. The way Bishop played Against SM leads me to believe that they would lose. Here’s why, SM’s line is the best in Pac 5, West Covina’s line is the Best in SGV. Stanton, Whoplin the RB for SM are great players, they put up 344 yrd Rushing against BA. Chris Solomon is a better back than he is, Then you have Frazier, and Salgado to deal with.

    I say if Bishop doesnt struggle with Garfield, Doesn’t get blown by Servite(Anyone can do that, and La Habra nearly beat them), If they don’t lose to Alemany at home, If they Beat loyola and don’t get held to 3 pts at home, Then yeah I would say they are the hands down best team. This inconsistent play leaves the door open for the discussion of BA losing. If you look back at the year before last, when Bishop Lost to Tesoro at home, that team was the best in the valley. They look strong, fast, and had some size. They just lost a tough game. This years team looked smaller slower, and couldn’t block anyone. With Players like Meaders, McCarthy, Marona along with the other good players who play with them, it would have been interesting. The scores would not be much higher than the Damien score if they won. Here’s the deal, Bishop only blew out two teams, Cathedral, and La Mirada. Those teams are nothing like West Covina, Charter Oak, and Monrovia, Especially if they teams are both playing their best football. I ask Bishop Fans, What game this season represents their best football?

  • JMO

    HEY SH!THEADS,

    ENOUGH ALREADY! AMAT and CO will settle it on the field next year so shut the FU#K up until then.

  • Joe Amat

    My Friend, thanks for dropping some knowledge to those who don’t understand

    Colt74 (one who I thinjk does)

    Nowhere have I ever written that I wasn’t impressed with West Covina. Quite the contrary, and when I posted the “Joe Amat Power Ranking” (based on who would beat the teams below them, as evaluated by how they played at the end of the season) this is exactly what ai wrote:
    1. Bishop Amat 2. West Covina
    (this could be a much better game than either of the 2 during Amat’s last sweep of the Bulldogs)
    3. Charter Oak
    4. Chino Hills
    5. Damien
    6. Covina
    7. Glendora
    8. Claremont
    9. South Hills
    10. Bonita
    11. Los altos
    12. San Dimas
    13. Ayala
    14. Pomona
    15. Arroyo
    That looks like I was fairly impressed with WC, wouldn’t you say?

    Now for all those who say, “I saw Amat and wasn’t impressed” maybe if you saw them against La Mirada and Cathedral…or essentially the top level of competition in the Southeast and MidValley, you would think different. To use a line Colt74 used earlier this season, the only thing that stopped Moore from getting more yards was the end zone! Kinda like Solomon and.Frazier in the finals.

    How would Amat have “looked” if they had 10 La Miradas and Cathedrals on their schedule?

  • Aaron

    I’m gonna say it…the PAC 5 is soft.

    The Marmonte is knocking at the door and so is a league from the Inland…in years past it has been the Big VIII. The PAC-5 needs to remove some of those bottom dwelling teams…but it also needs more teams…if we want this big boy ball idea to persists only league champions and number twos should be allowed. 8 leagues on seven teams.

  • Dan

    Joe,
    The first part of my post was directed more to other posters not you, I know you and 73 have conceded in the past that Amat could lose in some of these games, although in your case I can imagine you crossing your fingers behind your back as your conceding. LOL.
    The question still lingers, is West Covina better these last two years than when they played Amat? I think the answer is definately yes. With that said, it does brings into the equation that results could be different if the teams played in 10 or 11. Especially considering the tough game the second time around in 09 with an injured WC team. Why wouldn’t a better & healthy WC team have a solid chance in 10 and 11?
    My Pal Joey [Frank], funny you should mention that Pac 5 took their foot off the gas, truth is Loyola had their starting line in for pretty much the whole game, they substituted linemen at times during the game but would bring the starters back in, the starters on the line finished the game[at the same positions they started at]. They did take out their key skill players [Chas Anderson, Cody Whitefield, The QB] but the back ups are pretty good, and when you keep the starting line in there is not a big drop off. I’ll admit Loyola probably ran a vanilla game, but with no Solomon or Frazier
    West Covina stuck to 4 or 5 plays all night, Loyola was stacking the box and teeing off on the inside or off tackle runs.
    One other thing, instead of taking a knee in the last 40 seconds of the game Loyola tried to run it in from inside the 10 on two or three plays. Our crowd cheered when WC held at the 1 yard line as time ran out on them. We thought that was pretty crappy on the Cubs part. Mater Dei in 06 pretty much played their starters most of the game, they subbed to give guy’s rest but again the starters would return. Amat in 09 did not take their foot off the gas at all, because the close game warranted it. So pretty much the only times the Pac 5 would take their foot off the gas was in the blowout games such as Amat in 08, Mater Dei in 07.
    Sorry our crappy WC offense offends you so much, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The blocking at West Covina is base, angle and zone type of blocking, our coaches mix it up. They’re good at keeping opponents off balance. For the most part it’s no different than what they use in other run heavy offense’s, do you hate the other offense’s too? Our coaches have gotten so good with this system, and the timing of their play calling that when you combine that with backs that have the skill set of a Solomon or Frazier, well big plays were just bound to happen. They happened with frequency over here at WC but not as much as with Solomon or Frazier. Personally I like big runs just like I like big passes, both get the crowd excited and cause for an electric atmosphere, believe it or not we had them both over here at WC.
    Do you really think removing CO and SH resulted in our Championship in 2010? Suprising statement coming from you, I know you know better. We could have put 50/60 on South hills last year if we don’t take out the starters at the beginning of the 4th, it was 42 to 14 at that point. CO struggled in overtime to beat the same S. Hills team. Do you really believe we would have not had a 50/50 or so chance to beat them this year?
    The way the team came together the last 3 or 4 games we certainly did.
    One other thing, you once criticized the line blocking skills of the linemen in these offenses.
    Come on over to a West Covina practice and watch our coaches coach these linemen up close, I think you would have a different perspective at least with the linemen coming out of West Covina, just ask Albert Cid, who started just a couple months after he arrived at UCLA this past season. He was pretty much handling anyone that lined up in front of him.

  • Joe Amat

    So Aaron…soft? We’ll skip that one as it deserves no response. But you’re advocating a system where teams like St Bonaventure, Culver City and Tesoro don’t make the playoffs?

    Culver City was a 3rd place team and beat Serra in the first round. Everyone here raves* about the “athletes” at Serra (of course they also lost to a “soft” Notre Dame team that didn’t make the playoffs – and certainly wouldn’t in your “no third place” format)

    Tesoro beat #1 Servite to open the door for the “soft” State Finalists, who apparently beat a “soft” Mission Viejo team, that for whatever reason, has yet to successfully navigate it’s way through the “soft” Pac 5 playoffs.

    St Bonnies (Amat remembers them) was a 3rd place team and Thousand Oaks a 4th place team who both made it to the semis. Neither should be in the playoffs? now the reality is that league should be split in two – so it would really be 2 leagues in semis…but I digress.

    As “soft” as the Pac5 is Mater Dei, who has been in and out of the playoffs sometimes as a 3rd place team that would be out under your plan, has taken turns beating the Inland Divisions “tough” juggernaught, Centennial -until this year when CC came from behind to win in a late score to make it 2 in a row and go up 3-2. Funny thing about that comparison. In 07 they beat Centennial, and lost to OLU – who Amat beat. In 09 they beat Centennia, and then Amat beat them in the playoffs.

    So really, if one of the Inlands top two teams over the last 5 years is splitting games against a “soft”, average, Pac5 team…what does that REALLY say? It says, in your plan, they would have been getting beat by a non playoff Pac5 team? Good thing I only addressed your playoff plan ;-)

  • Fred Robledo

    Coaches comments are always great in these discussions, and they know more than we do. Remember, Damien coach Greg Gano played both Charter Oak and Bishop Amat, and he told us in November he would take Amat head-to-head. And remember what La Mirada coach Mike Moschetti said after facing La Habra and Bishop Amat.

    “We just got overwhelmed. Those two teams (St. Paul and La Habra) aren’t Bishop Amat. It’s not even close. — Mike Moschetti..

  • Dan

    One other thing Frank [My pal],
    In your attempt to stain our championship victory last year by insinuating the only reason we won is because of the dropped pic six, you and others forget to mention the only reason Bonita was in that game in the end was because of the three straight KO turnovers we had in the third quarter. We tied the game just before half and went in the lockerroom with momentum after sacking Pendelton in the final plays of the half. We came out with a big KO return and followed that with a big run only to fumble at the end of the run. That started the Bonita onslaught of three straight turnovers.
    The true reason for our win was the fact that the WC boys had the heart of Champions and would not give up. Bonita could not stop our offense in the second half, so it wasn’t because of a dropped pic. After the three turnover series we scored every time we had the ball. Our boys put their nose to the grindstone and went to work. Those turnovers kept our offense off the field, which is the most likely reason the game was even that close in the end.
    To Case Closed,
    The real question is how good was Bonita and West Covina last year? Who is to say Bonita could not have beat Amat with the team they had last season. Your looking at the name Bonita and assuming by that name they would have no chance. Look at the players themselves instead. That team was loaded, big line, big fast skill players, great highschool qb. They killed a Claremont team that beat Chino Hills, the same Chino Hills that beat Tesoro, and REV. That doesn’t guarantee anything but it puts the question out there. Their only losses were to WC, so how good were these two teams?

  • Ask Gano this

    Who is on Damien’s schedule next year?

  • Dan

    Fred,
    Wouldn’t you say that West Covina was just as overwelming against Mike Moscheti’s La Mirada team? The Bulldogs scored TD’s in 9 out of ten posessions, most of those were in 1 to 5 plays. The refs were blatant in that game in trying to keep La Mirada in it. They kept two drives going after West Covina made stops, resulting in La Mirada scores. They even called back one of Jimmy Fraziers long td runs, he has had 4 long ones called back for the season. Again I’m not saying this means WC beats Amat, but with that kind of dominance you have to consider them seriously.

  • Jefe

    Ridiculous to say WestCo ran up the score. The LS players did everything in their power NOT to stop the Bulldogs.

    I couldn’t believe the atrocious defense I was watching out there.

    It was almost as bad as my beloved St. John Bosco Braves in the 4th quarter of every game this season…..ok well maybe not THAT bad.

  • Fred Robledo

    Dan, I think it would be a great game. In the games I saw Amat at full strength, against Crespi and Santa Margarita, and especially Santa Margarita, they looked very good. Santa Margarita looked like Mt. SAC up close and personal. Their quarterback is as big as most linebackers in the area. The problem I have with West Covina beating Amat is you can’t just load up and run, no matter how many runners you have. You have to have some balance. On the flip, Amat could score on anyone in the Valley, and score often.

  • Aaron

    What Joe…you don’t want to drive out to Corona for a playoff game…oh no that’s not it, you don’t want to drive to St Bonaventure but you’ll happily do a one game matchup. You vaunted Pac-5 allows what half the teams to play to enter the dance…sorry but this isn’t the NFL where your quality of play is high because you have the best talent period.

    If you really want to be the best…you need the best teams in the division…so if you want it to go 32-teams for the playoffs…fine, but you better get the best teams in there.

    There are 29 teams in the PAC-5 basically the Southeast with 28 teams…that means more than 50% of your teams are in the playoffs…so yes winning the Mid-Valley is harder because less teams make the playoffs.

    Northern has 30 teams. Inland has 26…if you see where I’m going with this is that your sample is freakin’ small for supposedly the best teams in the section. The PAC-5 is not the NFL where everyone is already good and the team that wins is just downright NASTY. Wider samples gets you better results…it’s called statistics, I’m pretty sure an educated man like yourself took that course.

  • mars

    OK! I’ve been watching this blog, Amat fans thumping there chests because of past success against a stronger schedule, La Serna fans embarrased because there kids rolled over after the second onside kick at the begining of the second half failed.

    Amat, I think one point your missing is the personel that was on the field then as opposed to now. WC would have rolled BA this year based on this fact and not history of competition. WC is losing there impact players come graduation, so the game we all want to see will never happen. We all know who is the better team and who has the better personel, this year atleast, so lets just leave it at that.

    La Serna fans, my nephew gos to La Serna and is close to many players on the VF team, I was told that the LS coach and palyers were saying WC didnt know what they were getting themselves into, that WC was going to be ran over and so on and so forth. Also, I watched the blogs and seen some really nasty comments about WC. Truth is La Serna the “Cinderella Team” was outplayed, overmatched and outclassed in this game. Even with chosing such a horrible venue to play to give them a edge they had nothing to offer come game time. Call WC classless, who cares! They had there second and third string in after the first touchdown in the second quater. La Serna had nothing in the tank that could take advantage of it. I wouldnt expect WC to stop playing because LS couldnt make a decent tackle. I watched these kids all year, they took there foot off the gas, LS just tapped out.

    Instead of knocking these WC kids for having an amazing run these last two seasons you are all trying to discredit them based on the division they are in and the points they scored in one CIF FINAL game, a game where they needed to leave it all on the field. I understand getting all pumped up with school pride, but have some class yourselves, these are kids in case you forgot.

  • Frank

    Sorry Dan, you have me confused with someone else. I said I was still proud of West co and M-town even through all the trash talking. MY argument was on Steve’s wording not the argument itself. Steve said they WOULD beat Amat this year, he makes a definite statement. I disagree and say they COULD of beaten Amat. Of course this is possible and I think West Co is the only team in the SGV that would be able to stand up to Amat. Do I still pick Amat over all, Yes!

  • Lancelot

    HA, HA, HA, HA!

    STOP!

    That was a good one Steve!

    You did say to STOP you if I’ve heard this one before right?

  • Dan

    Frank,
    I did not confuse you, my post was to “My pal Joey” who is another Frank, sorry for the confusion. I actually agree with your post. I have no problem if you pick Amat over WC, just as long as people acknowlege that WC had a legit shot against the big boys these past couple years.

  • Dan

    Fred,
    Your comment… “The problem I have with West Covina beating Amat is you can’t just load up and run, no matter how many runners you have.”
    West Covina can pass if they had to, you don’t need a Bonita type passing game with a run game like WC’s, screens, quick comebacks, swing passes, tight end over the middle, play action over the top, all of these plays could spread the defense just enough to let Solomon or Frazier slip thru. West Covina would use these passes if teams decided to stack to many men. The fact is with healthy Solomon and Frazier WC was able to load up and run all year, we saw 8 men every game, they still ran thru every defense. Teams that get desperate and bring more than eight we bust thru and no one left on the second level, another long run, or we just burn them with the pass over the top.

  • football jones

    WCs schedule is incomparable to BAs.

    WC got dismantled by Loyola, squeaked by Covina, South Hills and Glendora.

    One reason why WC looks so good this year is because traditional powers SH & LA aint what they used to be.

    My money is on team with 10 year win streak in SGV.

    Quiz: what is last SGV public school to hand BA a loss?

  • Joe Amat

    mars,

    I think one point you’re missing is that Amat faces great athletes of his caliber a half dozen times a year…every year for decades. So instead of being overwhelmed over how they are they ever going to tackle a guy like that or being intimidated – they have something to draw from.

    Be it Marks or Banks form Venice, Dunn or Mitchell from Alemany, Williams or Harper from Crespi, Anderson or Walker from Loyola, or Muhammed from Notre DAme – we see that dual threat all the time.

    The only difference is they’re usually behind a D1 lineman or two, with a receiver on the outside (or some combination of the above) and a QB that will actually throw to them

    So challenging, yes. but nothing new to the Pac5 at all.

  • Joe Amat

    Jonesey – how about the same coach that beat us at Damien!

  • Dog Town

    Fred sorry buddy take off the blinders, we all see what you refuse to see . Your love for Amat on this blog is a bunch of crap. Truth is forget about getting any more transfers from WC, CO, SH, Monrovia, Covina. Everything i hear is these boys are staying home, FYI WC is drawring a lot of attention. It is what it is.

  • Aaron

    You know what attracts parents of prospective student athletes…TITLES!

  • Steve Ramirez

    WOW! I can’t believe my comments to a co-worker would blow up the blog so much. But all I was saying that West Covina’s strength, which is speed, would create a major match-up problem. In the Wing-T, the only way to combat speed from the wings is to control the inside with dominate defensive tackles, which Amat doesn’t have. The beauty of the Wing-T, like the veer and the spread-option, invented by Urban Meyer and perfected by Chip Kelly, is that it takes the emphasis on anyone man and stretches the field horizontally, where a conventional offense stretches the field vertically. In a conventional offense, you want speedy receivers on the onside to force safeties out of the box, which in turn opens up the middle, either via the pass or run. But a Wing-T or spread-option stretches the field horizontally and the only true way to combat either one is to either match it speed vs. speed or strength up the middle. USC was able to stop Oregon – or at least slow it down – because it matched its speed with a very athletic linebacker unit, who were somewhat smaller and fast. Ohio State in the 2010 Rose Bowl and Auburn int he 2011 BCS championship game was also able to slow down Oregon by being dominant inside. The reason you switch to a spread-option or Wing-T type of offense is because you have a finesse offensive line, so you are not requiring them to hold on to their blocks long, but just get in the way. The speed of the skill players takes care of the rest. But with Oregon – and to a degree West Covina at the high school – you can beat both by taking away the middle with dominant tackles, which allows you to cover the wings. From what I saw of Bishop Amat earlier this year is they don’t have that inside, or can they match West Covina’s speed on the outside.

  • Witness

    Hey Steve…Huh…NO!

  • AMAT 73

    Steve R ,
    Which game of AMAT did you see this season ? And did you see them on TV or in person ???

  • My Pal Joey

    Dan have you answered the question yet? Or has any one else? How about Steve, Aram or Fred?

    Would Bishop Amat have almost choked away a CIF Championship in the rematch with Bonita last year when WC was at full strength at QB and Solomon was as healthy as a horse?

    To say WC was one “drop down” INT from losing isn’t “staining” any one’s accomplishments Dan, it’s a historical fact. Just as SH has suffered from being pushed up and CO would have given you guys fits is also pretty fair conclusions based on historical facts.

    I hear the nonsense about La Serna and I’m reminded of UNLV blowing out Duke, it happens and only makes Podley’s coaching adjustments worthy of COY honors last year “over” Coach who at best should have “shared” the honor.

    Consider if you will that Bonita had an alsmot 40 point improvement from the last game, kind of unheard of in coaching circles don’t you agree?

    You know me and if I say something time usually is on my side that I’m right in the lonnnnnnnnng run. My question to you since we’re matching up teams that are never going to play is this:

    Would “either” WC team beat “either” CO Championship team. That’s a fair question for one reason, both played the same level of competition and both have D1 level athletes on the field.

    To say WC handles Pac 5 level coaching in league and to say CO survives Pac 5 level “bull’s eye on your back” scrutiny is a question I feel comfortable addressing for one reason “I’ve been there done that”.

    I know Aram loves to say I mention Salesian all the time but I that’s where Coach Rollison (Mater Dei CIF and National Championships), Ruedalflores (Alhambra), Aguirre (Carson City Championship) made their bones playing Bishop Amat’s “current” schedule. And in all honesty they were all better when we played them along with Banning, Pius X, Carson). Well every one but Alemany who we beat 28-0 ! (Have I mentioned that before? LOL)

    Dan in football at every single level the numbers are about the same, 100 yards rushing, 300 yards passing, 13 sacks in a season and so forth. Watching 50 plus runs over and over and over again just tells me it’s a system mismatch.

    Dan you’ve always been a great fan of WC from players to coaches, this isn’t a slam just one opinion of many to come I’m sure. At least in my case, and in Joe Amat’s, you know both of us aren’t afraid to say what we honestly believe.

    Congrats to Coach M, when I spoke to him last year he seems like a great guy to play for and the results are self evident, just like Bishop Amat’s vs SGV record.

    Funny but that “expert” at Glendora must have missed Coach P beating the Lancers almost 10 years ago! I was there, Coach P was pretty FN good that night.

  • X’s and O’s

    Steve,

    The spread option was actually invented by Rich Rodriguez (albeit by accident) and not by Urban Meyer. Meyer is awesome and helped it bet fame through Utah via Alex Smith and obviously by Tebow.

    However, Rodriguez created it by accident during his tenure at a lower division school when his qb made the mistake of going the opposite direction of his RB. Although Meyer was popular for it through Smith and Tebow, the spread truly gained popularity during the early 2000s because of Vince Young despite the fact it had been around for a while.

    Chip Kelly perfected the hurry up and made it a phenomenon in college football.

    BTW the veer and wing-t have been around for decades.

  • Dan

    My Pal Joey,
    Could you be looking at this thru the wrong glasses? I noticed and respect your football knowledge the day I met you at a WC practice, but that doesn’t mean you don’t get things wrong once in a great while.
    I disagree with you on your WC choking in the Title game last year. Maybe the real choking happened in the first game that Bonita and WC played in league, or could it be that Bonita was missing a few key players [Cody McKenzie, Zack Brungard + one more starter that I can't recall, I thought it was Reggie Turner], add to that a rusty Pendleton [who was picked a few times in the first game] and a rusty Taraz Lemons, both of them just returning from being injured for most of the season leading up to that point.
    Fast forward to the Championship game and now you got a healthy and pissed off Bonita team with revenge on their mind who showed up to play the second time around. You got a Healthy Cody McKenzie, a healthy Zack B. + Turner, along with Garret Pendleton at qb, and Taraz Lemons on the lines who are both back to game speed compared to being rusty and out of shape. Could that possibly have had some bearing on the staggering difference of the two games? I think so, maybe more so than it being a choke job by the WC staff.
    Maybe Coach M. earned that coach of the year honor for the daunting task of beating a team as talented as Bonita twice in the same season? You know the old truth… It’s hard to beat the same team twice in a season… that goes double when the team was as well coached and talented and motivated as Bonita was. Could coach have earned his stripes for huddling up and pulling together in the 4th qtr a team that should have fell apart after a disastrous 3rd qtr, where they fumbled the first series, and then had two straight consecutive kickoffs in which the ball took a bounce off the chestpads of our return team? Those events kept the Bulldog offense off the field for three straight series, just about the entire third quarter, while at the same time allowed three straight scoring opportunities to Bonita. Compared to the numerous and unlikely Bulldog mishaps in the third qtr, the dropped knee level pick looks minuscule in comparison, most likely the game should have never come to that. Could coach have earned his stripes that year for instilling enough toughness and heart into these boys to only allow Bonita to score 9 points on those 3 turnovers when they had all the momentum, Then to turn it around in clutch time and score on every series when they finally did get the ball back in the 4th qtr.
    Was that title game the result of the WC staff choking or was it more like Bonita coming fully healthy and fired up and with revenge on their mind, combined with a disaster in the third quarter?
    To answer your question of would Amat choke in this game, how do we know Bonita wasn’t good enough to beat Amat even without Amat choking? That was a very good Bonita team. Big physical line, Great QB, along with being one of the most athletic teams in the SGV.
    Strongly disagree with CO giving us fits last year. Maybe this year but not last year, they just weren’t very good in 2010, WC wins that title with or without CO in the division. I don’t go by history I go by players, As for this year I agree, you have an argument.
    On your question of Would West Co in their Title years beat CO in their Title years? I think 2010, 2011 West Co Beats 2009 CO. I think 2008 CO would edge out both WC teams. As for 2009 CO they had the best back 7 in the valley but they had a weak run defense we put up 300 yards on the ground on them but fumbled on 4 drives where we were moving the ball well. At least two of those fumbles were mishandled balls.
    2008 CO had the bookends on defense and could stop the run, plus the had all those D1 studs at the skill positions.

  • Attention All CO, WC, & MHS fans

    Mount Union takes on Wisconsin-Whitewater in the DIII Championship at 4 on ESPN2. I’m sure after seeing how they look against each other you’ll all agree that they must be able to defeat UCLA, who was only 6-7 this year in the Pac 12.

    Of course you could always flip to ESPN at 5 and watch the D1AA semis and see Montana vs Sam Houston, who is 13-0 and clearly should be facing LSU ahead of 1 loss Alabama, because after all – it’s all about the record.

  • Attention All CO, WC, & MHS fans

    Mount Union takes on Wisconsin-Whitewater in the DIII Championship at 4 on ESPN2. I’m sure after seeing how they look against each other you’ll all agree that they must be able to defeat UCLA, who was only 6-7 this year in the Pac 12.

    Of course you could always flip to ESPN at 5 and watch the D1AA semis and see Montana vs Sam Houston, who is 13-0 and clearly should be facing LSU ahead of 1 loss Alabama, because after all – it’s all about the record.

  • Attention All CO, WC, & MHS fans

    Mount Union takes on Wisconsin-Whitewater in the DIII Championship at 4 on ESPN2. I’m sure after seeing how they look against each other you’ll all agree that they must be able to defeat UCLA, who was only 6-7 this year in the Pac 12.

    Of course you could always flip to ESPN at 5 and watch the D1AA semis and see Montana vs Sam Houston, who is 13-0 and clearly should be facing LSU ahead of 1 loss Alabama, because after all – it’s all about the record.

  • My Pal Joey

    Dan as always a great analysis. I respect your analysis with CO vs WC. Great points, all well thought out and for sure the players determine the outcome so this conversation is really what the blog should be about, careful analysis supported by information and insight.

    My daughter used to tell me it’s not what you say it’s “how” you say itso maybe “choke” is a bad word, my apologies. Must be my competitive nature getting the best of me. I have to remind myself that this isn’t that kind of forum, lol.

    As far as Coach M winning COY over Podley I’ll defend that until the day I die for one reason, the man was coaching in such pain most individuals would have been in a wheel chair, lol.

    Dan so who wins it this year? Coach M clearly had a playoff run for the ages, does he go back to back?

    As I said when I saw your practices a few years ago, lots off violence, lots of talent and lots of fun. Seems all that was missing in the WC program was player discipline as every year it seemed that one star or another had off the field issues if memory serves me.

    Dan I think COY awards are difficult to give. Gano at Damien is my first choice by far but that’s because I know what he has to over come and how difficult his task is and how well he handles things.A few years ago it was Hagerty with out a doubt but like Coach M a CO Championship seemed to dazzle some more that turning that Lancer ship around on a dime.

    Just for the record, Podley did an even greater job this year! LOL Fortunate for us we have a few great coaches to admire in spite of drive by knuckleheads.

    Hope to see you at the All Star practices

  • bobbradstreet

    I read all the blogs today and can only say
    Joe Louis would have beaten Muhammud Ali……

  • Dan

    My Pal Loey,
    No doubt Podly is a great coach, I have no problem with Co coaches of the year between him and Maggiore for that great show they put on in the finals, but no doubt M. has to be there, after all he brought a title to WC, and he did beat a dynamic coach twice in a season.
    This year three come to mind Dale Ziola, Jude Oliva, and Maggiore… Ziola because of that great turn around he had over at L.A., At this time last year who would have thought Los Altos would go from 0 and 10, and only two wins in the last three years to making it within six yards of a semi finals appearance. What a drastic change of atmosphere there must be in that program.
    Jude Oliva at San Gabriel has got those kids playing over their heads. Someone forgot to tell these 5’4″, and 5’5″ 140/155 pound kids [literally some of their starters are that big] that they are not supposed to cover that good and come up and hit that hard, let alone stay even with a bigger and faster Monrovia team for the first half of the Championship game. As impressive as Monrovia was in the second half of that game I came away as impressed with the heart and tenacity that this swarming San Gabriel team showed in the first half. In the end Monrovia proved to much and Marquise Bias wore them down, but those SG boys left it all on the field.
    Maggiore should get consideration for the great job he did in keeping his kids focused from the start of last years off season workouts to week 14 of this year, in the wake of all the hype WC got over the summer and during the season. These kids were every bit as intense and focused in practice week 14 as they were the week before their first game. No sign at all of late season burnout. In addition to the back to back titles WC just won One thing people forget is that with the exception of one returning starter, Maggiore had to replace the entire offensive line from last years team. The improvement from game one at Covina on through the season was drastic. It was incredible to watch these boys move people out of the way during the playoffs.

  • My Pal Joey

    Dan no doubt Coach M has gotten things going but I have a question for you. So far as far as I can tell WC has had about 8 starting quality RBs all the way back to Johnson. Is there a pipeline of great backs in WC or is there a RB coach who needs a shout out that is working these kids into shape?

    I’ve never enjoyed playing against that offense or watching it beat up coaching staffs who are clueless to stop it and in a sense take the game away from the players. All credit to any team that masters that offense but geeeez it’s brutal.

    As far as the Co-COY option it would have been the most appropriate but somehow Fred whiffed on that one.Talking to Podley though kind of lead me to believe he thought the same but as he said, “To the victor goes the spoils”.

    Dan WC is very fortunate to have you spearheading the Bulldogs on the blog.

    BTW did you see the Time Warner State Match show? Rich Estrella brought up the point of why WC wasn’t in the State Bowl discussion and the other hosts, Eric Sonheimer among them, almost threw Rich off the show. That was too cold.

  • just askin’

    Who do you think had the more memorable championship experience, the teams playing here http://t.co/9A4REZx5 , Home Depot Center, or the ones at CalHi?

  • Aaron

    State Title games are supposed to be memorable.

  • Dan

    My pal Joey,
    I think most kids we get are from Cortez park, but also a few come in from Covina and BP, JAA leagues. No pipeline that I know of but I think that kids in the area know that they will get a great chance to feature their running skills over at West Covina. Coach Tello is the RB coach at WC, good man and always nice talking with him. Looking at the results of the past few years I think he deserves a shout out.
    As far as coaches being clueless on how to stop this offense some of the same coaches were getting good at it a few years back, When WC won CIF in 2004 we struggled in the same wing T offense in several games, our defense carried us through the season. In 2006 we even went to the spread offense, one reason is we had a lot of speed that year but another reason I was told was that the coaches in league were getting good at stopping the wing offense we ran. Loosing 2/3 of our speed threats that year The spread didn’t work out to well and we ended up going back to the wing t. In these last two years we were blessed with our best lines in a long time, along with probably the two best runningbacks we’ve had here, I think that is the big difference.
    I missed the time warner show, I know Sondheimer is an OC homer but he is probably right on this, Helix is an SD powerhouse and the right choice, if we don’t lose to Loyola so badly then we may have had an argument.

  • Dan

    Just asking,
    Your clueless and out of touch with reality, it all depends on where you are.
    Weather your at Home depot center, Dallas Stadium, or Cal Hi, winning a CIF championship is a lifetime memory, Once the whistle blew, it didn’t matter where the location was. I was at the WC banquet last night and every single kid on that team was proud to be a Bulldog and proud of the Championship they had just won. Believe me, They would not trade their experience for anything.
    Wow what a knucklehead.

  • just askin’

    Out of touch? I just asked a question. Maybe you’re out of touch and blinded because of what you want the answer to be. I never said anyone shouldn’t be proud of their team or accomplishments – just WHO do YOU think would have a BETTER memory at the end of the day? BETTER?
    be honest.

  • My Pal Joey

    Dan

    It’s always been my hope that bloggers could have a measured discussion about Football without getting ridiculous and as always you;re the Gold Standard here on the blog.

    I’m glad you gave a shout out to your RB coach as I’ve ALWAYS been a big fan of assistant coaches who don’t get the big bucks, the big pub and obviously the big heachaches but do put in equal work but never get enough credit.

    I spoke to Solomon before his junior year and he’s extremely polite and hard working. I hope he realizes all his dreams and well as any player willing to work hard and have amibition.

    The point I’ve noticed about WC recently is they no longer have discipline issues that side tracked other WC teams if memory serves me.

    I was there a few years ago when DR beat WC in the playoffs and this is a different team. What does next year look like for WC? Any players we should watch for? Last question what do you think the team learned from playing Mater Dei, Bishop Amat and Loyola?

    Good luck next year my friend. My youngest graduates this year so it wil be wierd not having any high school kids but I’ll be attending more college games, how cool is that My Pal Dan ?

  • Aaron

    So were RHPs titles at the District any less special…spade’s a spade and you’re a jackwagon.

  • still askin’

    Aaron and Dan – neither of you have really answered the question. Aaron, RHP should be very proud and they will have a very special memory-as should WC – loke I said.
    My very simple question was, will someone have BETTER memories, or do you both believe that the experience is equal. Simple really.

  • Aaron

    Left side of the spectrum…no, because you’re not worried about the material reasons: you made it to the championship with your teammates, you did something not everyone gets to do.

    Right side of the spectrum, yes: playing in Angels stadium or the Home Depot center or Dallas Cowboys Stadium where you feel that because you got to play there it means something.

    So it depends on your values, to me, Cal High just wasn’t that nice of a stage, they could have done Ken Gunn again or even better CSUF. However, to me, I’d at least would have like for there to have been a good surface to play on.

  • Dan

    Just asking,
    Sorry for the overreaction, but be honest, your
    origional question seemed like it was an attempt to mock the WC Championship these kids just won. We all know the difference between Pac 5 and Inland and Southeast. Aaron answered it well, These boys will always have a great memory of Dec.9 2011, even if it was at Cal Hi, not their fault where the game was played, exciting night and electric atmosphere never the less. These boys can still say we were CIF champs no matter where they played.
    If your out to impress people, o to brag that your title is better than someone elses title, then yeah, I guess saying you played at Anaheim Stadium would sound more impressive than Cal Hi. Then again, some kid from Texas can come over here and say he played at Dallas Stadium, which is even more impressive a football venue than Anaheim so would they have a better memory than a kid from California?

  • just askin’

    Aaron and Dan – I think a little Southeast inferiority complex might have kicked in the defense mechanism. The venue doesn’t make the “accomplishment” any better – just a different (more memorable?) experience. Same way you’re apt to remember the Prom more than a dance in your HS gym – even if your date was the same. Maybe it’s more a knock at CIF (La Serna) for not ensuring all kids have those memories, not just those in the better divisions. In states like Texas and Florida all divisions are played on the same field. Of course, I guess they don’t have 14 divisions to think about either.

  • just askin’

    and really, all I asked was “memorable” – not better and no inference or mention made as to divisions that could be viewed as mocking or the diminshing the boys win

    just askin’ said:
    Who do you think had the more memorable championship experience, the teams playing here http://t.co/9A4REZx5 , Home Depot Center, or the ones at CalHi?
    December 17, 2011 12:49 PM

  • Dan

    My Pal Joey,
    Congrats on your son’s graduation, I think I read somewhere he is going to Stanford, if so wow what a feeling to be a Cardinal, should be some fun years coming up.
    Your right about Solomon, good humble kid, nice to talk to… That Diamond Ranch team of 08 was star studded, their best team in their school history, only problem with them that year was Charter Oak had what was probably their best team ever too. We were missing two stud cornerbacks, Jabril Pearson and Daunte Webb along with Maurice Dupleasis at linebacker for that Diamond Ranch game, it would not have mattered, they still would have beat us, despite Webb being a big threat on offense, but it would have been a closer game because those corners would have helped keep the speedy DR backs from getting around the corner of our defense, which is how they killed us.
    As for WC’s outlook next year it looks good, judging by the season they had this year Aaron Salgado FB/OLB, Bradly Ojala LB/TE, Muleke Henderson CB, Justin Hornsby DE, Raul Gomez C, Aaron Franklin WR/FS, all could be among the best in the area at their positions next year if they continue in the manner they did this year.
    A couple others that could be very good too if they work in the offseason are Adam Romero and Tony Carcamo, both should team up with Hornsby to give us a very good defensive line. Jimmy Escoto, Ryan Crosby, John Najera, Christian Dorado, Sean Underwood, are solid juniors who had some significant playing time this year.
    Some talented sophomores who had some playing time this season and should be good in the next two years if they put in some hard work are Sidney Jones, Deshon Love, Joshua Best, David Ford at the skill positions and Chris Fernandez and Bryson Finley on the line. We also have a couple of freshmen who went up to varsity in the late season, who could make an impact as soon as next year, they are Antonio Hull at qb/skill position and Eric Quevado who is a lineman that is 6’3″ 220 pounds as a freshman.
    What do I think we learn playing Mater Dei, Amat, or Loyola? I think being exposed to Pac 5 talent like that would benefit our kids greatly come post season. Gives our kids an idea what they could be in for later on in league and playoffs when they come up against a good, well coached team full of athletes. A kid that goes up a whole game against a Loyola lineman, may learn that his first step needs to get quicker, or maybe his pad level lower. If an Amat runningback gets around the corner on our OLB then he may learn to get a better pursuit angle, or if a guard from Mater Dei keeps getting to our inside linebacker, maybe he learns to shed blocks quicker the next time around. A DB who gets burned by a speedy reciever may learn that next time he needs to give more cusion as the reciever is approaching him. I can’t help but think they benefit from games like that, even in losing, as long as we don’t get to injured. So far the injury’s have been few against the big boys. In 06 we lost Demon Wallace to an ankle sprain on the last play of the game, and in 08 we lost Jessie Ili against Amat with a high ankle sprain, other then that we fared well against those teams.

  • great for the sgv

    So after all this chatter bishop is still 6-5, and there is still a pretty good chance west covina would beat them this year. Sorry bishop, I watched both teams and west covina looked better on the field. They also had more fan support as opposed to the half empty bishop stands, I didn’t see the “rabid” bishop fan base that is always harped about. I just love how fred will drop them(which is rare) in the rankings and bishop nation will tell him what a terrible reporter he is. As soon as he says they are almost as good as they were in the past-they award him the pulitzer!