The Scouting Guru looks at playoff divisions and where teams should be placed
The Scouting Guru has been all over the San Gabriel Valley and beyond, and like always, he's offered to share his thoughts, free of charge. Don't hate, enjoy it for what it's worth, which is one man's opinion on the talent in the San Gabriel Valley.
The Scouting Guru, James Escarcega: First off, let me wish all of you and your families a Happy New Year. It's been a busy month and half and now that the season has concluded we can take a deep breath and relax for a little while before the season starts again... January 9, 2012.
I know that is a little outrageous, but with the passion that you have as fans to the only sport that we can have a civil conversation with at the dinner table, I know that many of you will have opinions on the sport in our area.
One of the things that I like to do every year is keep track of the divisions that involve the teams in the SGVN and where I think they should be placed. And I try to use facts and numbers to come to conclusions. And with the CIF-SS office reevaluating the playoff division for the 2012 and 2013 seasons, it was time for me to delve into my worksheets and see where our leagues should be placed. (To continue reading click thread)
Let me make this observation before we start. I think the Valley is very lucky to have a CIF-SS commissioner in Rob Wigod. He gets it. He knows the area very well and is in-tune to the issues that are on the table in our area. We are very lucky to also have Glenn Martinez as the assistant commissioner for football in the area. I can safely tell you that he watches our area and knows what is right and what is wrong.
Now let's get to the matter at hand and that is the Divisions. First off, let me make this observation. I looking at the last two years, I don't believe that massive changes are needed. Most of the evidence I will be using comes from calpreps.com. The numbers they use are really good and give the fans a great idea as to where the leagues should be placed. Here are the rankings of the divisions in 2010 and 2011
2011 Calpreps Rankings 2010 Calpreps Rankings
1. Pac-5 (Division 1) 41.1 1. Pac-5 (Division 1) 37.6
2. Inland (Division 2) 31.2 2. Inland (Division 2) 28.4
3. Northern (Division 3) 27.4 3. Northern (Division 3) 24.5
4. Western (Division 4) 20.8 4. Western (Division 4) 22.2
5. Southwest (Division 6) 18.9 5. Southwest (Division 6) 15.9
6. Eastern (Division 8) 14.4 6. Eastern (Division 8) 12.0
7. Southeast (Division 7) 8.2 7. Central (Division 5) 11.0
8. Northwest (Division 10) 8.0 8. Southeast (Division 7) 10.3
9. Central (Division 5) 7.8 9. Northwest (Division 10) 7.5
10. Mid-Valley (Division 11) -4.9 10. Mid-Valley (Division 11) -2.9
11. Southern (Division 9) -5.2 11. Southern (Division 9) -6.3
12. East Valley (Division 12) -8 12. East Valley (Division 12) -15.9
13. Northeast (Division 130 -15.1 13. Northeast (Division 13) -20.2
As you can see, the work that Wigod and his staff have done the last two years has been outstanding. Where the top four divisions are placed and ranked accordingly, it shows that very minor changes are needed. And the same thing goes for the bottom four divisions. Most of the teams look the same and geography forces the team to be placed where they should be. So I am in the minority that thinks that the Rio Hondo League doesn't need to be moved. I will touch on that issue a little later. Where the changes are needed to be made are in leagues in what I will call "Mid-Major" leagues. These are leagues that are in the middle of road when it comes to high school football in Southern California. Once in a while you will find a team that can compete with the big boys for one game and one game only (West Covina 2010) but for the most part, they play good football. Those Divisions that feel fall into that category are the Central, Eastern, Northwest and Southeast Divisions.
And in those divisions, I think that where you will find the most changes.
First let take a look at the upper echelon of the Southern Section when it comes to football and that is the Division's 1 thru 4. When I decide to look at a Division, I want to know how the leagues stack up compared to the rest of the leagues in Southern California. Once you get that, then geography becomes a bit of a factor. But the one thing that the Southern Section office has made clear, geography is not as big a factor as people think it is. They are not afraid to put one league in a Division that might be a bit farther in distance than the rest of the leagues in the Division.
A great example of that is the Southwestern League in the inland Division, the Serra League in the Pac-5 and the Pac-7 in the Western Division.
My starting point was in the belief that I was looking for the 16 best leagues in Southern California. In the end I found 13 of them. And here they are
Trinity, South Coast, Serra, Marmonte, Southwestern, Baseline, Sierra, Mission, Pac-7, Big VIII, Foothill, Moore, Empire.
There are five leagues that - based on a two year study - that look quite the same, Citrus Belt, Bay, Sunset, Sea View and the Sunbelt League. Out of those three leagues, I'd place the Citrus Belt, Sunset and the Bay League into the first tire of leagues for geography purposes. So let's list the top 16 leagues (based on our projections) and put their current division that they are listed.
Trinity (Pac-5), South Coast (Pac-5), Serra (Pac-5), Marmonte Northern), Baseline (Inland), Southwestern (Inland), Mission (Western), Pac-7 (Western), Sierra (Inland), Big VIII (Inland), Foothill (Northern), Moore (Pac 5), Empire (Southeast), Sunset (Pac-5), Bay (Northern), Citrus Belt (Inland).
In my honest opinion, this is where you find your top five leagues and make them the Pac-5. Theorically, however, you really can't do that. For instance, the Moore League will always get a free pass for one reason only - Long Beach Poly. Fair enough. So let's find the top four leagues and put them in the Division. Whatever formula you are using, it should be clear that the South Coast, Trinity, Serra and Marmonte Leagues are the four best leagues in the Southern Section.
They have performed the best in their non-league schedules and have earned the right to stay in the division.
One can argue that the Serra League should be out. My answer is why? In 2010, Alemany made the semifinals, Crespi, quarterfinals. So the league was 3 and out in the first round this year. When you look at their resume compared to the Sunset League, there is no comparison. So in my projections, the Sunset is out and the Marmonte is in.
The next question is, "Where to do you put the Sunset?" Easy, in the Southeast Division, you have a great Orange County division with a league that will give La Habra tougher competition en route to a championship game.
Now let's go to the Inland Division. This will cause people to say I have an agenda. Clearly, I don't have a dog in the fight. So here it goes, there is no reason for this division to be changed. I can hear all of you saying "What about Corona Centennial? Why shouldn't they be moved to the Pac-5 division?" Well, my answer is simple, the Big-8 league has underperformed the last two years. Consider in 2011 that JW North, Norco and Corona Santiago bit the dust hard this year. When you look at the resume for the Marmonte League and the Big VIII league, you don't see the dominance of the Big VIII. I have a philosophy; you don't punish a league for one team. A great example of that is the Freeway League. La Habra has won numerous CIF titles in the Southwest Division, but they have not moved up and have remained in the same division for the past four years.
Another point to consider, the Southwestern League has been just as strong - if not more stronger - that the Big VIII and the Baseline League was just as tough as the two league's we've just mentioned. Plus, the Sierra League has had a team make the semifinals, two years ago and the quarterfinals this past season. I can hear the South Hills people saying this, "If you think South Hills can play in the Inland Division, you are smoking the weed pretty good." My response is simple; I am looking at things from a Divisional perspective. If you don't like the fact that South Hills is in the Inland Division, talk to your principal in two years when Leagues get realigned. It was clear that the principals in the Mt. SAC area had an agenda against South Hills two years ago and got what they wanted. For right now, though, the Sierra League stays in the Inland Division.
So now we move on to the Northern Division where we have to replace the Marmonte League. Well, before we do that - the ratings from calpreps.com reflect another change in that division, the Golden League has no business being in the Northern Division and has to be dropped to the Western Division. OK, so we have two leagues that have to go into the Northern Division. If that was the case, we project the Mission League and the Pac-7 League fit in nicely. These two leagues have dominated the Western Division. And it makes for a nice division too.
Before we move to the divisions that everyone in the area is concerned about - let me make one final observation. We are truly going to find out whether the CIF-SS is about competition or money. Think about this one undisputed fact. 2011 was a water shed year for the CIF-SS. Interest in high school football is at an all-time high. With various platforms being used by Fox Sports West/Prime Ticket (via the game of the week and the Prepzone) folks are being exposed to high school more now than at any time in the Jim Staunton era. You have a commissioner in Rob Wigod who understands how technology can be merged with sports and be used to draw interest to the CIF-SS.
For the first time in the history of CIF-SS, three championship football games were telecasted live on over-the-air television. And with it came huge crowds and unbelievable interest. That is not counting the number of hits that the Prepzone received from viewers on the Internet throughout the season. And you better believe that the corporate sponsors that the CIF-SS secured this year are extremely happy with the results that they got. So imagine for a moment, you are Rob Wigod and you are meeting with your Marketing people. They show you the results from the gates from the top-three divisions in football (Marmonte, Inland, and Pac-5), the ratings from all three championship games on TV (which had to be pretty darn good) and you know what the first question is going to be, "Why are we changing anything?"
It's a good question to be asked. If you move the Marmonte League e to the Pac-5 division, from a marketing point of view, you could be losing huge gates from fans in the Ventura County, TV ratings from fans in the area - just for the sake of competition? The corporate sponsors won't like it because that means you are losing a segment of the audience that would be watching a semifinal that features St. Bonaventure vs. Oaks Christian. Now the CIF-SS will tell you that it takes its direction for its membership schools. Well, after the powers at be in Sacramento just told schools that they will not be expecting 6 billion dollars from last year's budget, the direction of the membership schools will be simple, "Get us every nickel and dime you can get from corporate sponsorship so that our membership fees remain the same."
So the question that CIF-SS Commissioner Rob Wigod has to think about is simple, "Is it financially feasible and marketability sound for us to make changes to our upper-echelon divisions?" It's a huge question that if answered incorrectly could have severe repercussions to the CIF-SS in regards to football.
Now let's get to our area and project the possible changes. Clearly the one league in the area that has stood heads and shoulders above the rest of the league in the Southeast Division is the Hacienda League. Unlike the Rio Hondo League where one team has dominated the league and the playoffs, the Hacienda League shown that they need to be moved to a higher division. With two teams making the finals last year and three teams making the quarterfinals this year, it's time for a move up.
According to the ratings from calpreps.com, the evidence is clear. It's time for the Hacienda League to go to the Central Division and for the Mt. Baldy League to move to the Southeast Division. Please keep in mind West Covina fans, according to the numbers, this is a lateral move at best and fits perfectly. It's not like your moving to the Inland Division.
And by the way, I'd make one more move. Based on the numbers, I'd move the Suburban League to the Southern Division and move the Pacific Coast League to the Southwest Division. The Pacific Coast League has DOMINATED the Southern Division and the ratings indicate that they would fit just nicely in the Southwest. The Suburban League has underperformed and the ratings indicate that they should be moved to the Southern Division.
You might be asking, do you make any changes in the Mid-Valley Division. My answer is simple - no. I understand that Monrovia has won the division the last two years, but the rest of the Rio Hondo League has done NOTHING!!! Plus, the ratings that I shared with you at the beginning of the column don't reflect the need for changes to be made.
So there you have it. If you are interested in seeing my spreadsheet with the projected divisions, please email me at sgvierecruiting@gmail.com. I'd me more than happy to share with you what I have put together.
That is if you are not a marketing guy... I know where you guys stand.
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Do Sunset League teams lose games to teams from lower divisions? Why is this guy so hung up on Chaminade being better than every Sunset League team?
@just sayin, who is probably rumper (sounds like him at least)...
You and I both know 2 teams won the Big5 Title in 1985 (Edison & Long Beach Poly)...
That is what the CIF record book says...
James, You said:
"And I can safely tell you teams like Arroyo Grande, Chaminade, St. Francis, Corona Centennial, Valencia, can easily defeat teams from the Sunset like Edison, Los Alamitos and Fountain Valley without little problem."
The only team on that list that can defeat the Sunset powers year in and year out is Corona Centennial. No other team on that list would "Easily defeat" the good teams from the Sunset. This past season Arroyo Grande and Chaminade were in the ball park, and may have been good enough to pull out a win but I would more or less call it even when pitted against Edison, Los Alamitos, Huntington Beach, or even Newport Harbor. St. Francis isn't at that level
and this season Valencia wasn't either.
Year in and year out those leagues overall are not better than the Sunset, there may be a team or two in each of them that could play with the better Sunset teams, but after that each of those leagues drop off.
- Moore League you have Poly and Lakewood, after that nada, overall Sunset is better.
- Pac 7 you have Arroyo Grande and thats it. Sunset is better.
- Mission League you have Chaminade and Serra. St. Francis is good but not at the level of upper Sunset, and this year Serra was either. Overall Sunset is better.
-Sierra League, Sunset is better, Top team or two could compete in some yearssuch as Chino Hills last year, and this year Charter Oak may have hung.
-Big Eight League, most years are as good as the Sunset.
-Baseline, this year was a great year for the Baseline, they were better than the Sunset, most years I would call the leagues even or slight edge to the Sunset.
-Empire League, Not at Sunset level, Tustin is tough and may pull an upset once in a while.
-Foothill league, Not what it used to be. Canyon Country, and Valencia may still be at the level of the upper Sunset teams but this year they weren't, Hart is not what they used to be, the Sunset is a better league these days.
blng_blng - stand by exactly waht I wrote. Edison has not won the championship game since 1980. Yet, I agree, they have a storied program. Hhighlights how hard it is to win it all at the highest level. You'll find that knot heads in the Fish bowl do not understand that.!
Has not won a championship since 1985 whilst competing in the highest football division in the state. Are you aware that only one (1) public school has ever won the PAC5 title? Edison has been to more PAC5 title games than any public HS football team not name LB Poly... Has the Sunset League been down the past 2 years? Yes, but down is a relative term. "Down" compared to the Trinity League, but so has everyone else. To make the claim that the Sunset League would get beat by Valencia and Arroyo Grande has got to be considered pure satire.
Bling_bling - Edison is "one of the winnningest teams in CIF" yet hasn't won th ecHampioonahip Game since 1980. And Amat gets slammed on here by the Village idiot for not winning since 1995. Only 7 schools have!
I knew norcow was B&P, you cannot hide dumb. But anyways, I think the guru is waaaay off base. I do think that the PAC5 needs to be "reassesd" and include St. Bonnies and Oaks Xtian. Combinind the best of the Moore League (Poly and Lakewood) with FV, Edison, NHHS and Los Al would make a good league and probably the #1 public school league in the state.
blng blng,
Welcome to the blog. I have seen your posts on SCP blog and you do bring some fire to the blogs. Just try to keep it clean and based on your New Years resolution to be civil please keep that in mind as I have never seen anyone on this blog go that route on that subject . Glad to see you and looking forward to you and Norco ( screen name here ) aka B&P go at it on here. Also nice to see you have regestered your screen name .
sgv scouting said:
1: Dan -- I'm talking about from a two year perspective. The Sunset League has underachieved and even HC Dave White over at Edison has conceded that it's time for the league to league to leave the Pac-5 division.
2: And I can safely tell you teams like Arroyo Grande, Chaminade, St. Francis, Corona Centennial, Valencia, can easily defeat teams from the Sunset like Edison, Los Alamitos and Fountain Valley without little problem.
3: Plus the ratings from calpreps.com reflect the weakness of the league. And I will say this, there is no way that Crespi should have defeated Los Alamitos in 2010...and I'm keeping it real!...
1: That one article that Friar wrote has caused irreparable harm to the image of the Sunset League and IMO he should be sued over it. Just about every league in the PAC5 has had off years and/or years when they have gotten swept. The Sunset League won every 1st round game they played in 2007, did Friar make any special mention of it? If you actually read the article White was saying that public schools cannot compete with private schools. The year you point to when the Sunset Leauge got swept (2010) every other public school league (save Tesoro and MV) also got beat by the 1st private school team they played. Edison is still one of the winningest teams in the PAC5.
2: Arroyo Grande, Chaminade and Valencia? Edison has not lost to a team from a lower SS division in like 20 years. St. Francis??? Really???
3: What calpres.com ratings are you talking about? In 2011 calpreps has the Sunset at the 8th best league in the SS. Ahead of the PAC-7 (Arroyo Grande), the Foothill League (Valencia) and the Little8( CC)…
At least be accurate guru...
Dan -- I'm talking about from a two year perspective. The Sunset League has underachieve and even HC Dave White over at Edison has conceded that it's time for the league to league to leave the Pac-5 division.
And I can safely tell you teams like Arroyo Grande, Chaminade, St. Francis, Corona Centennial, Valencia, can easily defeat teams from the Sunset like Edison, Los Alamitos and Fountain Valley without little problem.
Plus the ratings from calpreps.com reflect the weakness of the league. And I will say this, there is no way that Crespi should have defeated Los Alamitos in 2010...and I'm keeping it real!...
James you like direct questions I liek direct answers so let's try this:
Didn't you "leave"the SGV Fish Bowl for the I.E.a few seasons agoonly to end up at Crespi?
Now i'm not big on league names, division names or directions but since I actually took bus rides out to play Crespi back in high school, long before their was an I.E....lol Isn't Crespi in the opposite direction?
Oh, and I forgot to mention,
James Escarcega. Sometimes a spell of cluelessness seems to overcome you my friend, how in the world do you come up with the Mission, Pack 7, Sierra, Big 8, Foothill, Moore, and Empire leagues all being better than the Sunset league this year? Not one of those leagues had a win over a Sunset team this year.
Not In 2012, Joe Amat!!!
And not for a long time to come!!!
James...?
James...?
James...?
What are you saying...?
Fred - Get yourself a refund...! This James guy is an outright fraud...! Do you know what he's saying?
Amat 73,
Boy this is crazy isn't it? I've never seen so many coaching resignations happen all at one time
like they are now.
I agree with you, pressure's of winning, overbearing parents,character assasination's on these bloggs, low pay, extraordinary time commitment are all part of the blame for this mass exodus. I also think Sierra league fan may have hit the nail on the head on another thread with the CIF association rule. I think this coaches association rule is the root cause of all this, it took a couple of years, but now it seems to be coming to full fruition. Seems like after a couple of season of doing year round football, many coaches may be now realizing the time and effort it takes to run a year round program with no extra incease in compensation is getting to be to much for their particular situation in life. add to that, if you don't have a teaching job at the scool you coach it's that much tougher. Maybe this will send a message to CIF and they'll go back to the old rules were kids have it easier to be multi sport athletes, and coaches can take a few months off after the season.
WC Dan,
Even funnier, did you see his thread on " I will make every effort to be civil this year " . The guy is hilarious but he does have a tendency to go off the chart on some topics . Again congratulations on the Championship and I hope this virus going around the area coaches does not hit our schools. I think with the demands of winning and pressure by parents to make sure coaches send their kids on to the next level or making sure the next great Lambert ( for you SD,MFS ) or Faulk gets plenty of playing time is becoming quite a burden on coaches. You can see it on the blogs everyday by all the transfers and gripes or put downs of coaches on not doing enough is making these jobs and also lack of pay just not that inviting as they used to be. Just my opinion . What's your take ???
It's even simpler in CIFs eyes. they play their major division champiionships at major venues like Home Depot, Anaheim, Stadium or the Honda Center. They play minor divisions at other home sites or minor venues like LMU, UCI, and now Colony or even Mater Dei.
Where did Bishop win their championship? at a major venue or a minor one?
The man seemed pretty specific when he said - "upper-division (top half) CIFSS boys basketball championship". You can argue any thing else you want, but top half is top half. Is it that hard to figure? And even at that - how many school in the valley have even won a CIF basketball championship at any level lately?
Typical Joe Amat, manipulating the data to make Amat look better then they are. Let me say this reeeeaaaallll sssslllooowwww for you
upper division = 1AA, 1A, 2AA
Middle level = 2A, (3AA), 3A, 4AA
lower level = 4A, 5AA, 5A
Let me say this again, your the only one who would consider 3AA (2002 version) an upper division championship. If someone from La Habra came on here and said they were the last team in the SGVN to win an upper division FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP, you would be the first person on here saying bullsh*t - your such a hypocrite.
Amat 73,
Ha Ha, yes, it's the controversial Bling Bling [aka Big Tank and a few other aliases that I can't recall at the moment,] making his way out to the sgv, you can tell by the sensitivity to the Sunset league/Edison talk.
Bling, just don't tell your buddy Norco [BNP] your here cause the back and forth will take over every thread. It'll be worse than the Amat vs CO vs WC smack that we all get tired of.
Fact Boy,
You don't read so well, nor is your math so hot. Maybe have someone read back to you (real slowly) what I just wrote:
"...last SGV school to win an upper-division (top half) CIFSS boys basketball championship..."
*Top Half*. Now have whoever is reading this to you explain fractions. *Half* means divided into two-parts... That means there's a Top half....and a bottom half. You pointed that out yourself. The order goes like this:
Top Half
1AA
1A
2AA
2A
3AA
____
Bottom Half
3A
4AA
4A
5AA
5A
So you stand corrected. 5 is in the top half of 10. Ask some 3rd grader...they'll help you out.
Now I ALWAYS write that Bishop Amat plays "at the highest division" in football.That I am sure of. Not A top division. THE highest division. I am always VERY clear about that one.
But since you mentioned West Covina's Division SEVEN championship, we can review the most recent math lesson.
In CIF football there are 13 playoff DIvisions that play 11 man football, as mentioned above. I can chart these out for you as well so you can once again take advantage of the visual. The order goes like this:
Division I Pac5 (Amat's Division)
Division II Inland
Division III Northern
Division IV Western
Division V Central
Division VI Southwest
Division VII Southeastern (West Covina's Championship)
Division VIII Eastern
Division IX Southern
Division X Northwest
Division XI Mid-Valley (Monrovia's Championship)
Division XII East Valley
Division XIII Northeast
So now, as you were saying, is West Covina in the top half...or the bottom half?
Or are they really, as you say, "a (THE?) middle division champion"?
Now unless you're a Glendora fan saying they're the last team to win a Division1 championship (which I'd agree with) ... Who put who in whose place?
Class dismissed!
Joe
You are so full of sh*t. In 2001 Amat won the division 3AA Championship. Division 3AA was the 5th division out of 10 divisions in 2002 (that my friend is what all "non" Amat people would call a "Mid-level championship) The order goes like this 1AA, 1A, 2AA, 2A, (3AA), 3A, 4AA, 4A, 5AA, 5A. Now explain to me how 3AA is was upper division championship in 2002. If you think this is an upper division championship then please tell everyone how Westco is the last team in the valley to win an upper division FOOTBALL championship. because that's pretty much the same thing, and we all know how you are constantly telling everyone that nobody else in the fish bowl plays football in the upper divisions (blah blah blah). The truth is that Glendora is the last team in the valley to win a boys CIF Championship in the upper divisions in 2001 when they won the Division 1AA Championship. Go ahead Joe, keep putting it out there so that I can keep calling you out on your Bullsh*t.
Fact guy,
Sorry,
I usually and meant to write "...last SGV school to win an upper-division (top half) CIFSS boys basketball championship..." which is still true and not obsccure at all.
Although congrats go to LVL for their D3 State Championship after being eliminated earlier in the CIFSS playoffs and "backing into" the state playoffs
(I don't really believe that...it was just for the benefit of the "coin-flip fans")
blng blng,
Are you the same blng blng who stirs up so much trouble on the SOCALPREPS.COM ??? If so what happened , did they chase you out of there ????
Really Joe, do you know for a fact that La Verne Lutheran didn't have any kids from their 2008 or 2010 Basketball Championship teams that didn't play any other sports in high school? Always pulling obscure data out of you ass in order to pump up Amat.
I don't agree with most of what you have to say, you didn't answer my question.
About the multi-sport athlete making a comeback, that's awesome. But as far as skills guys on the track...that's not really a phenomenon anywhere, that's been normal.
Beef up Division 1 and make it tougher to get to the playoffs and win that title.
This next year having a regional will be awesome.
The QB for our State Champion, Johnny Stanton is a standout on Santa Margaritas basketball team and one of next years most highly recruited lineman, 6'5" 320lb Riley Sorenson plays center on the team. Amat relies on dual sport guys and guys have been successful moving to the next level in other sports.
Amat is still the last SGV school to win a CIFSS boys basketball championship, when they beat Artesia along the way with a bunch of football/baseball guys on the team. The multisport athlete is alive and, in many cases , making a comeback
The QB for our State Champion, Johnny Stanton is a standout on Santa Margaritas basketball team and one of next years most highly recruited lineman, 6'5" 320lb Riley Sorenson plays center on the team. Amat relies on dual sport guys and guys have been successful moving to the next level in other sports.
Amat is still the last SGV school to win a CIFSS boys basketball championship, when they beat Artesia along the way with a bunch of football/baseball guys on the team. The multisport athlete is alive and, in many cases , making a comeback
@Leagues - not teams
Your wrong, you don't have to look at leagues from top to bottom when moving leagues into new divisions. You only need to look at the teams at the top of each league when making these moves, because the realignment ONLY affects the teams that make the playoffs. The bottom feeders in every league will not make the playoffs and because of that the realignment won't have any affect on them what-so-ever. The reason that you can't move the Moore league out of the pac-5 is because LBP and Lakewood will tear up almost any other division unless they were placed in the Northern (with the Marmonte still in it) or the Inland (with the big VIII still in it). Now that it looks like the Sunset is going to be moved, look for Edison and Los Alamitos to dominate what ever division they get moved into, and alot of schools in Orange Co. to start to complain about how it's unfair to be in the same Division as the Sunset.
Aaron -- Again you are not speaking facts. Here is your first one...
"The difference between a PAC-5 Power and other teams is the amount of football players they have...not multi-sport athletes and the depth that comes with it."
Wrong. I am finding more and more football players that are in other sports in the winter and spring. Hate to give you this example, but at Crespi, one of the starting forwards Tyler Foreman is one of the top safety prospects for the class of 2013 according to scout.com. On the wrestling team, three of the four top weights from 182-285 are from the football team. Many of the skills guys are in track. And the same thing is happening at Servite High School too. Depth issue... I agree with you.
"Could that 2010 Bonita team have beaten Servite, one game and one game only...maybe, idk."
You don't know... I do know and it called a running clock. It'd be that bad in Servite's favor...
I can keep going and going, but I think I'll stop there. That is what happens when you live in the fishbowl...
blng_blng
CIF is only looking at a two year span from 2010 and 2011. Plus, I believe it's Edison's Dave White that is throwing up the white flag and wants out...
If any league should disappear from the Pac 5 it should be the Moore league. Top to bottom they are weak. LBP and Lakewood are the only teams worth keeping from that league. Probably why these two are always fresh come play-offs. They can rest and breeze through their league play. IMO, The Moore League should be on the Pac5 "Chopping Block"!
You obviously haven't read what I've written in the past...more than half the teams in the PAC-5 make the playoffs every year...more than half. Same in the Northern, same in the Southeast.
Could that 2010 Bonita team have beaten Servite, one game and one game only...maybe, idk. The difference between a PAC-5 Power and other teams is the amount of football players they have...not multi-sport athletes and the depth that comes with it. Centennial in 2010 had an official roster of over 100 players...and they were huge! The Best product on the field would involve the addition of the Marmonte and an inland league...less spots to be had the more competitive it actually is...more teams vying for a fixed number of spots...and that's how you get rid of the Long Beach Wilson's of the world who have no business in the PAC-5 playoffs.
I'm not looking at it from a marketing perspective...I'm looking at how tough it should be. DI isn't supposed to be easy or fair, it's supposed to be tough and unfair...because life is not fair. We can continue the AYSO five year old division where no one keeps score and everyone gets a trophy.
Oh and about your service, where's the PO Box and the website that you don't have.
The Guru is crazy...
#1 the Sunset League is 5-4 vs. the Serra League since 2006
#2 the Sunset League has been to the PAC5 finals 2X to the Serra's once...
#3 the Sunset League has won more PAC5 playoff games...
#4 The Serra League has the fewest PAC5 playoff wins of any league...
Those are all facts GURU...
You have to look at LEAGUES from top to bottom - not just ceratin TEAMS. of course the Moore League is going to have more wins - beacuse Long Beach Poly gets to the finals. That adds up. Los alamitos had a good run - that adds up. What about everyone else. We are talking about moving LEAGUES Into different divisions so you have to take into consideration ALL members of the league not just a couple dominant TEAMS.
"When you look at their (the Serra League) resume compared to the Sunset League, there is no comparison. So in my projections, the Sunset is out and the Marmonte is in..."
Fred in crazy...
I would like for Freduardo to compare the two resumes...
#1: The Sunset League has been to the PAC5 finals 2X's to the Serra Leagues once...
#2: The Sunset League (since 2006) has more playoffs wins, the Serra League has the fewest PAC5 playoffs wins of any league...
#3: The Sunset League is 5-4 vs. the Serra League since 2006
You were saying Freduardo???
Guru,
Keep up the good work. Too many people can't handle the truth that the SGV is small time compared to the I.E. and O.C. No team in the SGV can handle the OLine of Santa Margarita.
This scouting guru guy is such a lame! Seen him on TV he don't even know what he is talking about! A straight joke! I don't know why you even pay attention to him Robledo!
And I guess Aaron you never took a Marketing class in college...Just a hunch....
hs football fan said
Here is the answer to your question that I WROTE in the column...
"Based on the numbers, I'd move the Suburban League to the Southern Division and move the Pacific Coast League to the Southwest Division. The Pacific Coast League has DOMINATED the Southern Division and the ratings indicate that they would fit just nicely in the Southwest."
Aaron couldn't help but laugh at this comment you wrote, "Fact is the PAC-5 is not competitive no matter which way you slice it...big boy ball, sure, but it doesn't stack up to big boy ball in other states period."
I guess you haven't been to a Pac-5 divisional semifinal or final. What are going to say next, that Bonita could be Servite? Please, year in and year out, the Pac-5 is one of the most competitive Divisions in the United States. And that's not opinion, it was the opine by maxpreps.com
BTW, I bet the number of kids from the Pac-5 divisional schools will sign more scholarships on signing day than the players in our area. And that is a fact!!!!
So we don't like competition...got it, I'm cool with De La Salle winning the state title every year...I really am...I mean Ladouceur is going to retire the all time wins leader as a high school head coach and never be approached.
The Valle Vista isn't strong enough to compete in Southeast...well maybe if you kick out the Hacienda. When we went to geography based divisions I started to laugh...the first year it was really geography based CO played El Dorado...which was actually solid, the next year they really lowered the competition everywhere. Fact is the PAC-5 is not competitive no matter which way you slice it...big boy ball, sure, but it doesn't stack up to big boy ball in other states period.
since 2006 the sunset league has outperformed the serra league...
the serra league has the fewest playoff wins of any pac5 league
My opinion- move the SG VLY LEAGUE from the Western to the Southeast and move PACIFIC LEAGUE to the Western Division- also what about moving the VALLE VISTA to the Southeast or move the ALMONT back to the Southeast- and maybe move the DEL RIO to the Mid Valley- and if you move the SUBURBAN to the Southern what league would move from the Southern to the Southeast?
Aaron -- Good to hear from you. In regards to the Southwest Division... I'm just adding one league...the Sunset League. So the Division would be Century, Freeway, Empire, Sea View and Sunset League. Five leagues - three automatic playoff births and 1 at large birth.
As far as the Pac-5 is concerned, you'lll never see that change. Why do you think they call it the Pac-5?
As far as divisions 11-13, I would want to recommend that to the commish. Would you like to do it?
It's very difficult to follow your train of thought when you continue to mix up the Southeast Division with the Southwest Division.
As for changes, I'm with Aaron, the playoffs are watered down too much. CIF needs to condense the divisions down to 9 Divisions (I say 8 teams in every league) + an Open Division. The Open Division would be the top 16 teams chosen from any of the eligible 9 divisions. In this scenario, there would be no question of who is the Southern Section best team.
This is how I know you're a hack:
"The next question is, "Where to do you put the Sunset?" Easy, in the Southeast Division, you have a great Orange County division with a league that will give La Habra tougher competition en route to a championship game."
"And by the way, I'd make one more move. Based on the numbers, I'd move the Suburban League to the Southern Division and move the Pacific Coast League to the Southwest Division. The Pacific Coast League has DOMINATED the Southern Division and the ratings indicate that they would fit just nicely in the Southwest. The Suburban League has underperformed and the ratings indicate that they should be moved to the Southern Division."
Beyond the numerous spelling errors, according to this last quote you make the Southeast a three league division which everyone makes the playoffs and you have to find an at-large from another division.
The Suburban would go back to the Southern...ok. How about we blow the system back up and get rid of 11-13, push those teams forward.
PAC-5 needs more teams, yes I want seven leagues of seven teams: 14 playoff berths with two at large berths...so it won't be the PAC-5 no more but back to DI. You want to claim toughest division, toughest league...ok make it happen!