Does Bishop Amat belong in the Pac-5? Aram doesn’t think so

AmatlookCOLUMN: From 2006 to 2013, Bishop Amat has one playoff win and several thousand fans and coaches who think the Lancers still belong in the Pac-5 Division, SoCal’s elite playoff grouping.

Following last Friday’s loss to Crespi, the Lancers face an uphill battle just to make the postseason with tough Mission League games left against Serra, Chaminade and Alemany.

If the Lancers don’t make the postseason, it will mark the fourth time in the past nine years that Amat didn’t even go dancing. Considering Amat was in a four or five-team league for most of the past decade, that’s saying something.

Heck, in one of the years Amat did make the playoffs, the Lancers needed the stars to align and a coin flip in their favor on the final night of the season just to make the dance.

This year was supposed to be different. Amat has one of its most-talented teams in quite some time, with three players receiving college offers from some of the top college football programs on the West Coast.

But “it” hasn’t happened. Amat is now 2-3. Who knows what to make of the Lancers’ big win in Texas over Aledo. The rout of Rancho Cucamonga looks less impressive now that La Serna just beat the Cougars and it’s looking like this isn’t one of the Rancho Cucamonga’s juggernaut teams.

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  • Inland_FB_Fan

    Amat doesn’t belong in the “Big Boy” Division. They would fit in better in the west valley division even though they lost to #6 ranked Chino Hills by 17 pts. IF, and that’s a big if, they were to make the pac 5 playoffs, they would get blasted in the first round again. They haven’t won a playoff game in years. They need to be demoted.

  • Don

    There are 30 teams in the Pac-5. Two thirds of them have little or no chance of beating the top ten. The slim chance group, (bottom of the Mission, top of the Marmonte), have maybe a 1 in 5, 1 in 7 chance of beating the real “big boy” teams, roughly the same as do the top 2 or three team in the Mid Valley Division. The “no chance” group, (bottom of the Marmonte, the Moore League less Poly, and the Big Vlll less Centennial), need to be reassigned.

  • Conq ’76

    The precept for this article should read…”If Amat ever hopes to win another title,….they need relief”. As has been indicated, there are plenty of “PAC-5” teams who play each season with little or no chance of making the playoffs let alone coming away with a championship. Amat’s record can certainly be compared to some of these teams, but it seems certain that a CIF Championship will at the very least, be “elusive” when forced to compete with the upper echelon teams.

  • FredJ

    Here’s what’s true. If Bishop Amat were in the Inland, they’re no slam dunk to win it, but they would have a much, much better chance. in The Southeast they would be co-favorites with St. Francis. In the Pac-5 they’re a middle of the road team most of the time. Problem is, who would you replace Amat with in the Mission Catholic League? St. Francis? Damien? St. Paul? Cathedral? Salesian? It’s not going to happen. Amat year in and year out is better than those teams.

    Amat’s improvement has to come from within. Are players happy? Are they keeping players? Is it a school that attracts Division 1 talent? If they’re not doing that enough to eventually become a contender in the Pac-5, then they’re a school not doing their job, it’s that simple.

    Mediocrity breeds mediocrity, that’s the pattern they’re in right now.

    Now, if CIF and comimish Rob Wigod re-work the system to make it more like basketball where teams are placed in divisions regardless of league and based on how you do, then Amat might get the relief it needs. But I’ll tell you what, I’ve watched Damien basketball beat a team in a championship that was 0-10 in league and watched the Amat girls consistently finish third and fourth in league only to get in a favorable playoff division and win.

    Don’t like it. I don’t think you should ever be rewarded for a mediocre league season with a favorable playoff bracket. But that’s an argument for another day.

    • Valley Athletics

      Fred i think you mean the new west valley division not inland .

    • SGV football fan

      Fred, 1st things 1st. You need to stop referring to D2 as the inland. It is now called the West Valley Division and it consists of all public schools with the exception of the crybaby Spartans of Damien (fyi, only because of a lawsuit). The Inland Division is now D5 I believe.
      With the exception of Alemany, Amat has been the most consistent team from the former Serra League at making the playoffs. Yes, over the past few years the league has consisted of only 4 and 5 teams but because they had fewer teams they also had fewer automatic births guaranteed out of their league. 4 teams = 2 automatics, and last year 5 teams = 2 automatics. So, from a percentage basis they had pretty much the same odds of making the playoffs as most other teams from other leagues and divisions. Based on Aram’s comments, he must believe that if you don’t consistently make the playoffs and win playoff games that you should automatically be moved down. If that were the case then almost every lower division of football would have football powerhouses dominating the divisions and where would that leave smaller public schools like most of our high schools here in the SGV? 2nd, I’m glad to see that you aren’t a fan of the new playoff proposal that is being talked about. The way CIF handles basketball has destroyed league play at the high school level and would be even worse at the football level. The only schools that would benefit from this format would be the lower rated schools in powerhouse football conferences. Teams like J. Serra who finish in last place in the Trinity would be moved down to lower divisions for football as would lower finishing teams in the Marmonte, Mission, Big 8, Foothill, Southwest, and Baseline. The trickle down effect would decimate the lower divisions. The Southeast, Central, Eastern, Inland and Midvalley division would get over ran by many of the these football powers and it would be twice as bad in football as in basketball because there is only a 16 team playoff format for football as opposed to the 32 team format for basketball. How fair would it be for an 0-5 Trinity League team to be placed into the Central Division. or a 4th place 3-3 team from the Baseline to be placed in the Midvalley. If CIF wants competitive balance then they need eliminate the Principals and the Athletic Directors from determining the leagues and they need to set guidelines on how leagues are formed. The playoffs need to be controlled by CIF at the league level and not the individual school level.

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        I am not sure that would be the case. If you look at the midvalley. Monrovia, San Dimas and Paraclete, have not seen a competitive game until the finals, because with only 3 legit teams, one side of bracket sucks and the other side is a dog fight.

        Paraclete vs Monrovia
        San Dimas vs Arroyo

        Is that fair to the other two?

        If they found the right formula, it could work. Another example would be Eastvale losing to Pomona big. In the new format, you could take a team like St Francis and replace them with a 3rd place moore league team in the Pac 5. You could take say Long beach Milikan and place them in the Southeast. would that not make the pac 5 more difficult? Right now how many surprises have you seen in any division? I notice the same teams making the finals….especially in lower division football. Cif could work around easily release the brackets for the playoffs on Sunday. The Teams ranked 1-16 would play for the pac 5. The teams rank 16-32 would play for the west valley and so on. It might work.

  • reality

    Lets demote all teams that don’t do well so they can each have a trophy. That way nobody goes home crying. What a dumb point of view.

  • Mean Joe Green

    There are only three options here:

    Option A – Continue to lose in the Pac-5
    There is nothing wrong with remaining in the Pac-5 and continuing to lose. Heck, lots of teams in the Pac-5 have no chance of making the playoffs, let alone the championship. No one would begrudge Bishop Amat for taking this path of least resistance and mediocrity. There are tons of schools that are simply waiting for lightning to strike every 20 years.

    Option B – Drop down in Division and Win (no guarantees)
    This is the most unrealistic of all three options. Since BA is a private school that relies heavily on the fund development of its alumni, there is no way they would swallow their pride and step down at the expense of losing ticket sales and donor support.

    Option C – Remain in Pac-5 and win.
    This option I believe is what everyone is hoping for but doing nothing to achieve it. Until Bishop adopts the tactics of other schools to bring in talent, they will always remain behind the 8-ball. There is simply no excuse why talent should exist in an SGV public school. Bishop should be able to go through the SGV with a dragnet and grab all of the SGV talent in the same way Alemany raided Pasadena. Only until recently did La Salle and Marantha wise up, change their perspective and started retaining Pasadena local talent.

    • FredJ

      Great post. Where Aram hit it good is saying you can’t run a program with a 1980, 90s mentality in 2014. You’ll be stuck in mud forever. Even moreso, Bishop Amat needs to assign someone dedicated to social media and getting players names out. They need to promote. They need to be transparent in every way imaginable. They also need to do EVERYTHING they can to get players scholarships, even if it’s something small. No reason Charter Oak, Diamond Ranch and Monrovia should be sending more kids than Amat to to D-1 and D-2 every year. Parents wants to play for programs that show passion in helping their kids get to the next level.
      We commented a few weeks back that La Mirada, Charter Oak and others get transfers because their coaching staffs turn the off-season into recruiting central. They leave no stone unturned trying to get scholarship money for players to go D-1, 2 or 3..

      Bishop Amat should have that mentality too.

      • Mean Joe Green

        I personally remember Haggerty saying to BA parents that they should be more realistic and accept the fact that their child will not play football at the next level. This is not what you want to say to incoming parents. Delivery is everything. Rather than say, “Chances are your child will not play at the next level”, how about saying “This is what your child will need to do to play at the next level”. In three weeks, Monrovia had over 40 D-IA, D-IAA, and D-II coaches visit their school this year. Our coaches were actively reaching out to schools and sending videos. Why would anyone pay to receive less?

        • Valley Athletics

          Amat had up to 4 schools a day at spring practice also . It was very busy spring .

          • Mean Joe Green

            Valley, I know that Amat was busy this spring and I also know that recruiters travel their often. My only point is that there are other schools that are on the radar of recruiters. This tells an athlete that they do not have to go to Amat and pay in order to get looks from recruiters. Paying over $7000 a year for an education is a hard sell to student athletes who can go to Glendora, Arcadia, Bonita, San Dimas and Monrovia for a quality education and still get college looks.

          • Valley Athletics

            yeah I agree . Most parents nowadays know that it’s not the school you go to . Most kids get notice by going to the camps and playing on 7on7 teams . Coaches just like to take the credit . But what draws kids to Amat is they want to play against the best recruits on a weekly basis . When you talk about education . A good student will get a good education anywhere he goes. It all in the students hard work ethic .

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            You are right Amat is the only place where you can play D1 in the SGV. If that is taken away…they would lose a lot of talent. However, Continuing a Winning Tradition is what will draw kids to Amat in the Future. No one likes losing. That Chino Hills loss was very damaging to the Amat Brand. I am sure CH has players that can play in college. But Amat has at least two players which will go on to play big time ball. They are losing games that they are not supposed to lose. They lost to Rancho last year. They mid to top level schools in the Pac 5 take care of business against Div 2 teams. Also there are teams coming into the pac 5 from lower divisions seem to have a better shot at the title.

          • WCDan

            “The mid to top level schools in the Pac 5 take care of business against Div 2 teams.”

            Not always, Last year Alemany, Tesoro and Crespi all lost to Div. 2 teams, They would all qualify as mid level Pac 5. Despite their recent losses Amat is still in that mid level group.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Not really…Tesoro got demoted…Alemany nor Crespi Are not head over hills better than Amat is.

          • FredJ

            Mater Dei’s in Santa Ana and I don’t need to tell you how good the alternatives are in Orange County. But Mater Dei still gets blue chippers. Look at St. John Bosco, there are public school alternatives everywhere. But the big-timers are going to Bosco, why is that?

          • Mean Joe Green

            True.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Aram uses the word “Street Cred”. BA is lacking that in the SGV. The SGV is truly built on neighborhod people. The Majority of parents in the SGV are from the SGV. They are well aware of what Amat used to be…to what Amat has become. Some the parents went there, some played against, and some remember how tough Amat was when they played locally. Schools like SJB, or Mater Dei may not have this dynamic. A lot of new people move to the OC or surronding areas of schools like SJB. All they may know is how these schools are operating now. Amat has to get back to putting a product on the field, that parents don’t mind paying for. The Money always come into play…but if Amat’s winning big, parents will find the money, whether it be by working two jobs, or asking for family contributions etc…As of know $7000-$8000 grand might be a little to much to spend if Athletics is the driving force while deciding on what school to go to.

        • FredJ

          You’re about the fourth person who has told me about that speech. Interesting.

          • Blue&Gold95

            That speech is 100% ACCURATE, Fred!

        • Jefe

          Please tell me he did NOT say that to the incoming parents.

          Oofah. No bueno.

      • Valley Athletics

        amat does get recruiters to the school . They had over 40 schools At spring practice from to big to small schools . Last season was there weakest class and that is why there was no offers . Michael gonzalez was legit but he missed soph and junior years with injuries . If he would of had junior film he might be somewhere . 2 years ago there was 7 players who went to next level . Most offers came after signing period which shows school is doing something . But then again the player has to be a recruit .most are not at Amat. Every school wants you to think that they are the ones getting your kids offers . But the reality it’s the kids hard work and parents . Parents who send there kids to trainers , 7 on 7 teams and all the camps should get the credit . Kids who don’t do that fall behind . I see the tweets about the local recruits performances at camps all the time by recruit experts like Greg biggins . most parents in 2014 know this now . That’s why businesses like BBT are booming .

        • Mean Joe Green

          I agree with all those points Valley. I just think a rebranding is in order if you want parents to pay that tuition in this economy. Either you start winning a lot more, offer a lot more scholarships, or start sending more kids to the next level. By next level I mean college: DI DII or DIII.

          • Valley Athletics

            I agree . In the past it was about getting a good freshman class and developing them . Now a days most parents want to pull there kids if they are not on varsity sophmore year. So Amat loses a lot of players . So if Amat wants to join the rest of elite teams they are going to have to focus there energy on getting upperclassmen transfers and giving them freerides . The days of getting the best freshman and developing them are over . It’s all about the transfer loaded super teams .I ran into a father of a good player who left Amat and went to a top public school in IE . I asked him why he left Amat . He told me that Amat doesn’t give free rides and he couldn’t afford it anymore .they opted to take him to IE instead of school near home in SGV .So Amat is going to have change there ways .

    • last picked

      Couple of huge differences between the Pasadena schools being raided and say Charter Oak and San Dimas by Amat. On campus safety has been a huge issue for years at the Pasadena schools especially Muir. You know Alemany comes in and offers the parents a safe environment for their kids while promoting their respective programs as well. The schools in Amat’s area don’t have those issues. Also kids no longer need to go to Amat to get noticed, that has changed over the last 20 years. Is Amat sponsored by Nike, Addidas, Under Armour like Mater Dei St. John Bosco, Poly? Those things influence a kid’s decision as well. So many different factors.

    • Blue&Gold95

      I agree with Option C, and by rebranding is to get a new Head Coach, like La Salle & Marantha did. Nobody wants to play for Hagerty!

      • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

        95er,

        Hagerty IS the new coach brought in to replace the one who led us to the two worst years in amat history. What he may need to do is go back to being himself, instead of listening to some other “influences”.

        If 95 is your graduating year, I understand your bias. If it’s your number, you probably know the problem really starts way higher on the organizational chart than Hagerty.

    • Steve Ramirez

      I applaud coach Hagerty for sticking to his guns and running his program the way he wants to do it, from an ethical standpoint. There’s an old saying that fits here: “A man has to live with himself, even if he lives in the gutter.”

  • GO AMAT

    Bishop this, Bishop that. Blah Blah Blah……always when they loss. The only ones that states the true facts are the true fans. No BIG mention when the Amat boys win one of the best teams. Always when they loss .Write a article on another school and see how many comments you get. NOT MANY…love us or hate us, we will ALWAYS be who we are. BISHOP AMAT

    • Inland_FB_Fan

      How long has it been since Amat has won one of “The best teams” When was the last time Amat has “upset” a team better than them?

      • Don

        You mean like Crespi or Loyola or Santa
        Margarita or Servite or someone like that? Gosh, guess I’ll have to let one of the Lancer fans answer that one. And speaking of which, I
        think that you mean “beat”, not “won”. One wins games by beating teams.

        • Inland_FB_Fan

          Don’t count Santa Margarita last year…they were 4-6, or Servite 2 years ago , they were 3-7. or Crespi & Loyola in 2012 they didn’t make the playoffs. 2011 – No one, 2010 – no one, 2009 beat a 6-5 Mater Dei team…so once again, no one.

          Amat has not pulled off an “Upset” in 5 years.

          • Valley Athletics

            You better hope amat wins some games . If they dont your win won’t look as good . At the time Amat beat Aledo they where a 14 point underdog . It is still considered an upset by many .

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            You are joking, right? Aledo’s wins are over Prepa tech from mexico, #8819 in the US Joshua, and an average Cedar Park team by 4pts.

          • Valley Athletics

            Does not matter .. We will never know how good they are because they don’t play any one else . But they where heavily favored and every one said they would get smoked . They don’t look legit now because Amats record . Just like chino hills win won’t be impressive anymore because of Amats record. Are you really an Chino hills fan or just an Amat hater using chino hills as an excuse to fjnally put down Amat .

          • Conq ’76

            Early season predictions are iffy at best, especially between two teams from different states. Going in it is usually a crap shoot and all the hype surrounding both programs grows the game to mythical proportion. A lot more was known about SJB and Bishop Gorman, and in that case the hype was justified.

            After the fact it is easy to find fault with the match up.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Of course you can’t count Santa Margarita, they were no good. Only good enough to beat CIF Finalist Mater Dei – who embarrassed Upland. Can’t count Servite, but they beat the inland semi finalist. And Crespi/Loyola didn’t make playoffs in a 4 team league. Guess why…Amat did! So they haven’t upset anyone since beating who, #1 in the nation St Bonaventure? During that time they’re 38-12-1 and haven’t “upset” anyone. What does that tell you about the 38 wins?

      • GP AKA Green Machine

        Hey isn’t Ike the only Inland FB School to ever win a “big boy” Title? BA has more big Boy titles than the entire IE. No?

        • Inland_FB_Fan

          Fontana won one…they were the #1 team in the nation back in the day.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Now who’s living in the past?

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            I am. Just saying Amat has been just as long since they were relevant. Do you think Amat would win the west valley division this year if they were dropped down?

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            So it’s gone from when have they “upset” anyone to would they win the West Valley? Who knows? But they’d be perennially in the Top 4-6. What league are they in? The CIF playoff “formula” means so much. Winning a league & getting seeded gets you a doormat in Round 1. Are they playing a West Valley schedule with only a couple tough games a year…or a PAC 5 schedule where there’s a tough one each week, where the “soft” games on the schedule are ranked West Valley opponents? Changes a whole lotta things – but of you’ve never played a Pac5 schedule it’s hard to realize that.

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            Naturally, they would be in the Baseline league. That would be close to as the mission league they are in now with Upland, Chino Hills, Rancho (most years) , Etiwanda. They would be in a dogfight most league games.

          • Valley Athletics

            Baseline is not even near the mission .. And if Amat got dropped it would be in the angelus league because it’s a private school . Damien won in court not to be in the private school league because of travel so they had to be put either in the palomares , hacienda or baseline . Baseline was the logical league because of all sports .

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Did your fingers really just allow you to type “Etiwanda” and “dogfight” in the same sentence? Los Osos…dogfight? How has Amats series against Rancho Cucamonga and Damien gone lately? Look, it’s a bit different coming off back to back weeks like that and getting ready for a tough opponent, than playing someone while looking ahead to opponents like Crespi or Loyola. The Mission league has no Etiwanda/Rancho/Los Osos/Damiens in the bunch.

            Did you honestly just write that? (No wonder I spend less time here lately…)

          • WCDan

            Baseline = Mission League?
            Agree, not even close, and I have no dog in this fight. Maybe the Baseline and the new Angeles league would be comparable.

          • Valley Athletics

            In the Cal Hi state rankings the mission has the 6th,7th , 8th , 23rd and 25th ranked teams in state . baseline only has number 22 . But congrats it’s chino hills . So leagues don’t compare .

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            I agree, Mission is higher rated. However, it is the next best solution for Amat. They haven’t had that much success in the last 5+ years. If they were in the baseline at least they could compete for a championship. Here it is, week 1 in league and Amat is basically out of the running for a league championship……again.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            In Hagerty’s 6 years they’ve made the playoffs 5 times (last year being the first miss), have 1 league Championship and were alive for the league title on the final Friday of the season 3 other times. During those 6 years, Notre Dame and Alemany have made the PAC 5 playoffs 4 times, Crespi and Loyola twice. And Amats the one that needs moved?

            But I know you don’t want to let the facts get in the way of your opinion…so proceed.

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            Not bad for a 5 team league where 3 teams make the playoffs…lol. They won league in 2009 in a 4 team league..lol. They actually tied ND with a 2-1 league record. That also happens to be the year of their last playoff win beating a 6-5, 3rd place Mater Dei Team.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Actually, when it was a 5 team league only 2 were guaranteed a playoff spot. Statistically much more difficult than 3 guaranteed spots in a 6 team league. As is being in the top 2 in a 4 team league without looking forward to playing those 2 doormats that are in most leagues. But math is not your strong suit anymore than it is Aram’s.

            Keep trying

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            It is so easy to bag on you Amat homers…lol. You have so much “pride” in your mighty Lancers. I mean come on who calls themselves “Joe AMAT”? You guys just can’t face the fact the the days when Amat was a Pac 5 – DI power are loooonnng gone. Your program is just a shark in a fishbowl of guppies. You love to live in the past. A little ol’ public school like Chino Hills has finally surpassed your gutty little Lancers. Man, that’s gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Although Chills has really just evened the series, if winning the most recent game means you’ve “finally surpassed” another program, Amat has surpassed Servite, St Bonaventure, Orange Lutheran, and Mater Dei?

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            YEE HAWW!!! ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY AMAT LANCERS….lol. I would hope in their 90 year history (or however old that dump of a campus is) that they would have beaten those teams. How competitive have they been against them in playoffs the last 5-6 years??? The Los Angeles / Oakland Raiders used to be dominant too. Where are they now? You have to admit it, Amat is no longer a dominant football program. Plain and simple. Chino Hills handled them with relative ease and they are by no means a dominant program. They are an above average DII school.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Inland guy – you lost your right to post when you said games against Etiwanda, Los Osos, Rancho, and Damien would be a dogfight.

          • Don

            90 years, 50 years, whatever, it’s just
            good to read that you are finally coming around to see that the hills
            of chino fields only an above average D2 school and forget all of that “big boy” talk. I call that progress and see it as a step in the right direction And now that you have found your favorite team’s place in the big old world, it’s time to move on. That big game you keep posting about is as much in the past as, well, as is your loss last season to Amat or even worse, the loss to Charter Oak. Boy, THAT’S one you want to forget.

            Time to gas up the old buggy and get
            ready for that trip to Victorville tomorrow and just leave the past where it belongs. BTW, after the game be sure stop at the sonic and grab a slush. It makes that ride home so much more enjoyable.

          • AMAT 73

            ifbf,
            Honestly , would you be on here blowing your horn so much if CH hadn’t beat AMAT this year ???? And if AMAT is so bad what does that say about CH’s victory over them , and why are leaning so heavily on it ????

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            Just saying they should be drooped from PAC 5

          • AMAT 73

            ifbf
            You can say that all you want, whether it is a valid statement is another issue . Depending on what you are basing the drop , you need to add another 10-12 teams in the PAC -5 to the list who are much more deserving of being dropped . Do you really think AMAT belongs in the Angelus League ???? Cathedral , the slime , Salesian , LaSalle , SF , and AMAT????? I can see Damien in there but certainly not AMAT .

          • Inland_FB_Fan

            No, They would destroy the Angelus league. I think Damien would be a good fit for that league and Amat in the Baseline.

          • rgd2626

            ifbf
            Don’t argue with them.In there minds they are still the Amat of old.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Rick,

            I think we are actually pretty similar to the Amat of old. The others have changed!

          • rgd2626

            Joe,
            I really am not Rick Godinez, I wish you would give him a call or get in touch with him somehow.Rick is a good guy,do not want anything i say to be thought of as Rick speaking.He coached my son at LA, that is how i met him in 1997.
            But to what i was saying.I am talking about the standards that Amat has now.These past 8 years would have been completely unacceptable back in the day.

          • Don

            “Don’t argue with them.In there minds
            they are still the Amat of old. “

            EXACTLY! That old fashioned Bishop
            Amat.

            Doesn’t have an army of full time
            publicists.

            Doesn’t field a year round squad of
            scouts raiding talent from other schools at the 7 on 7 tourneys.

            Coaches who don’t make a bunch of
            promises they can’t keep.

            No soft money slush fund from guys
            trying to buy their little star a ring.

            Doesn’t cotton to the upperclassmen
            transfer drama.

            By golly, finally, someone who gets it.
            Well put rgd2626
            .

          • Don

            Clearly this I_F_F chap has had his perspective handed down a long ladder of Lancer haters going back through Bruich to Ancich. Lord only knows how far those tentacles have spread. 😉

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Against San Gorgonio in 88 ? Don’t forget about that Ike team who ran up the score verses Mater Dei, Either way The entire IE may have 2-3 D1 titles. Amat has at least two in my life time… I know we bash Amat around here, but no IE person is going to get on here and state unsubstantiated garbage about SGV football. The Has on big time program, and that Corona Centennial..That’s it. D2 ain’t D1 and don’t you forget it. D1 is Big boy football… that’s it that’s all.

          • last picked

            Don’t forget when the D2 teams have played the D1 big boy teams, it’s been pretty even, including regional bowl games.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            You mean When Centennial has played. That’s not the entire IE…just one School.

        • last picked

          The more relevant question would be is when was the i.e. teams last in D1 before realignment. Can’t win where your not playing.

          • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

            Amat beat Redlands in the 2004 playoffs, so at least then. After years of no playoff success, the Citrus Belt was removed from the PAC 5

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Yeah they were demoted for a reason…Mater Dei Beat Eisenhower twice…Even though Ike won 1 title, you have not seen an IE team other than Corona Cent hang at the top.

  • Fire Hagerty

    Fred,

    You and I both know Hagerty spent more time worrying about trying to get rid of Nieto than he did promoting his kids and preparing them for this season. The school will continue their spiral dive until the administration is changed as well as the head coach.

  • Samsteel

    They would dominate in a lower division but playing in PAC 5 they look like an average team. They will get worked this Friday by Gardena Serra.

    • Inland_FB_Fan

      They would not dominate the “lower” West Valley division. They got beat handily by # 6 Chino Hills.

      • Go Deep

        Put them in the Baseline. Drop Damien out of Baseline.

        • Inland_FB_Fan

          That makes sense. That league would be a good fit for them.

    • The Fan

      Amat Baseball has won CIF Championships in lower division with top baseball players.

  • GP AKA Green Machine

    Sometimes, it’s best to start with the small things.The First thing Amat should do is change their offense. You would expect them have more flare, and more creativity in their play book. You can’t run their offense in the pac 5 with a small team. They should run a up tempo spread offense. Maybe even no huddle. Use your small quick characteristics to your advantage. Tire teams out… They have tons of shifty athletes over there. They could incorporate them into the run game with Fly sweeps etc…If they tweaked their offense, which is something they can do right now. They are going to be shootouts for the rest of league. If they are going to draw in the talent, they are going to want to see a different style of football at Amat.

  • Ingenico4life

    Seems like AMAT has the right players, but the wrong coaching staff.

  • Wells

    This is irresponsible journalism under the current playoff format. If football used an open division like basketball did (at the section level) Amat would not qualify; but that does not mean they are not a Pac-5 level school. They compete in one of the strongest leagues based upon their past performances. Losing in the playoffs (in a single game elimination format) doesn’t mean that they are not competitive in that division. How many of those losses were blowouts?

    CIF has playoff problems to fix in many sports, but moving a single team down just so they have a great chance to win a championship is not anything they need to worry about just because people in this valley love football and would like more playoff success out of our teams.

    • guest1971

      You should expect this sort of reporting by people who show biases towards certain schools..you never hear them talk about other schools, nevermind little nobodys that they never cover

  • The Fan

    For the faithful Amat Alumni fanatics. Bottom line. Bishop Amat needs to go out and recruit. It’s a must if they want to compete with other top teams in their division or to get back to CIF Championship level. A must is to offer the top student athletes in the SGV or IE scholarships. It happens all over! Good luck BA and yes they belong in The PAC-5.

  • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

    Freddie I’m glad you posed it as a question rather than a statement. Aram is too smart to really believe that too, but it makes for a reasonable discussion. If it were up to him, maybe the Pac5 would mean only five teams.

    Here’s some more facts from Hagerty’s 6 years on playoff appearances from the private schools that have been in the Pac5 that entire time

    Bishop Amat 5/6
    Mater Dei 5/6
    Servite 5/6
    Notre Dame 4/6
    St John Bosco 3/6
    OLu 3/6
    Santa Margarita 3/6
    Loyola 2/6
    Crespi 2/6
    JSerra ZERO/6

    Some thoughts. Is there a team on that list Amat has played they have not beaten during Hagerty’s time? Should JSerra have bargained for relief. Should SJB have been booted after 7 straight years of no playoffs?

    It’s difficult to judge how the other teams will fair. We’ll get a better idea on Chaminade and Serra soon for sure. Do you really expect anyone besides Centennial to have much playoff success – is the Big VIII moore likely to be the Moore League Part 2? Sold on the Marmonte League? (See what I did there?) Oaks Christian, Westlake, and Moorpark are still waiting to win a Pac5 playoff game.

    Playoff wins are so random, I’m not certain that’s the best indicator any. In other sports, with a 32 team bracket and real “seeding” it so more accurate. In a 16 team bracket with the playoff “formula” so much is based on who you get. Playing a 2nd/3rd or At-Large team from the Trinity is far worse than the counterpart from the Moore/South Coast/Marmont/etc.

    Winning a championship is not a right, it is earned. On the field. Against the best. Not by moving down to a level you can “win”. As great as Mission Viejo has been, they never won a championship at the highest level. It’s tough. I wonder if they’ll feel as good winning one after a move down? Is that really “winning”?

    • Valley Athletics

      Moorpark would lose to every mission league team by 30 points .

    • Conq ’76

      Fair and important points…

    • GP AKA Green Machine

      That was a nice break down. What do you think about demographics? A lot of the pac 5 schools are in areas where the population is growing or much larger than the SGV. With the size of the SGV, and very limited talent pool, moving forward do you think Amat would ever get out of this situation? They literally would have to be getting the top 1-2 players from each school to put together a team that could win a pac 5 title today.

  • SGV 4 30 Years

    All this Amat talk is almost funny. Haven’t the Amat bloggers always told the rest of the public schools in the area to get better? Well now they have and the Amat people don’t like it. So don’t ask for relief because you can’t (or won’t do what it will takes) to run with the big dogs. That will make you look like Charter Oak who for years beat their chest and claimed to best, but when they couldn’t hang they begged for relief from the Inland Division bad boys. So stay in the Pac 5 and………….get better.

    • http://bishopamat.org/ Joe Amat

      4:20,

      I don’t think there’s any “Amat Blogger” that has come on here and begged for relief”, said anything about “not liking” any public school getting better (which is clearly debatable) or writing anything less than staying at the top and working to “get better”.

      So we agree

    • AMAT 73

      sgv430
      Where do you see any of us asking for relief ????? Great that the rest of the SGV is getting better . Let’s not go overboard on one loss to CH because that doesn’t relate to the rest of the SGV , or does it in your eyes ??? It’s more everyone except the bloggers of AMAT professing a drop down or relief . We have a solid team this year , young but solid . They have hung in every game and ( NO EXCUSE ) but if we would have had our 1st string QB playing the whole CH game the outcome might ( AGAIN MIGHT ) have been different . We lost to Crespi by 1 point because their coach had the guts to go for the win in OT and was rewarded . Let’s see how the Mission turns out because each week there will be 3 wiiners and 3 losers and 1 watching .We just hope we get our fair share of wins . Name me one league other than the Trinity where competition to win a game week after week is a toss up .

  • 12th man

    Bottom line is that most of these powerhouse pac5 teams operate like mini Universities..they recruit, they give incentives and they do all the footwork for the players when it comes to recruiting..Amat struggles in a demographic area where they can’t really produce the somoan players (Long Beach poly,Lakewood, Mater Dei,Serra,etc.) or this big corn fed guys via (Mission Viejo, Santa Margarita,SJB,etc.) They rely on the athleticism of the 60% latinos on the team..It’s give and take..Lets trade size & strength for speed & heart..which might work in the begining of the season..but midway through the season your D-line is already spent and that’s not counting the injuries..but that’s a whole different topic for another day..I don’t think Amat needs relief yet..only because they still posses that upset factor when it comes to playing one of the top teams..(Friday night Lights) …you never know? #1 ranked team could come into Keifer Stadium and have an off night! We’ve seen what Amat can do when all the cards are lined up..Something magical happens!

    • Valley Athletics

      Probably more than 75 percent Latino . And your on point with the demographic thing .

  • AMAT 73

    12th
    Beg to differ on Alemany . We had them beat last year only to lose because of bad clock management and some questionable calls by the staff which was the case in a couple of games last year . As I said in another post each week there will be 3 winners and 3 losers and one watching in the Mission , we just hope we win our fair share , no team is running away with league this season ..