The search is over: Mora in

It took a while, but UCLA has found its man.

Sources indicated early Saturday morning that UCLA is set to hire former Seattle Seahawks and Atlanta Falcons head coach Jim L. Mora as its new head coach, with an introduction planned for early next week.

In a wild coaching search that had an abundance of twists and turns, sources said on Friday that communication had waned with Mora and that the search would continue, with Washington head coach Steve Sarkisian and Cincinnati Bengals offensive coordinator Jay Gruden among candidates. But reports filtered in throughout late Friday that Mora was back in play with the Bruins and it appears the 12-day search has concluded.

This, after UCLA showed previous interest in Boise State head coach Chris Petersen and Houston head coach Kevin Sumlin before being rebuffed.

Mora last coached at the college level in 1984 as a graduate assistant at Washington, where he played defensive back from 1980-83. After a lengthy career as an NFL assistant coach, Mora took over for Atlanta in 2004, guiding the Falcons to an 11-5 record an appearance in the NFC championship game. Mora went 15-17 for the Falcons the following two seasons and was fired and spent one season with the Seahawks in 2009, going 5-11. He has served as an NFL analyst since then and is expected to join the team once he finishes his broadcasting duties.

Interim head coach and offensive coordinator Mike Johnson coached with Mora in Atlanta in 2004-05, serving as quarterbacks coach for Michael Vick. Johnson is reportedly set to interview for the Akron head coaching position next week.

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    Some observations:

    1. It made Guerrero and ucla look bad going after Petersen, a coach who had a long track record of turning down higher paying jobs…

    2. bruins’ fury over Guerrero taking eleven whole days to find a coach to save Guerrero’s job is kind of over-the-top…

    3. Seems strange to take a coach with virtually no college coaching experience, although it obviously has worked out for other schools on occasion. Still, Mora is at the age, 50, where this is his last hurrah at possible greatness, so I am sure he will come in with fire in his eyes….

    4. All this hate generated by ucla supporters will dissipate quickly. The public’s memory is a short one. So perhaps it is time to chill and concentrate on more important matters such as having a very thankful and spiritual holiday season

    Just sayin’

    lawyer john

  • UCLAFan 11

    Guerrero was desperate to save face, so he decided to hire the only guy who showed interest in the UCLA job….pathetic! He’ll be fired in the coming weeks….


    Well we have our coach. Let’s set aside our dislike of GurERROR and rally around our new coach. LETS GO MORA! LETS GO BRUINS! FIRE DAN 🙂

  • Anonymous

    I am disappointed and disgusted with this hire! This is absolutely unbelievable that Dan hires Mora simply because he “wanted” the job. This is Dan’s “third” hire of an at best mediocre nfl guy who is consider to be UCLA’s “best” selection when there’s clearly better coaching talents throughout the nation.

    Reading Mora’s unimpressive coaching resume says a lot about UCLA as a program and its leadership at Morgan Center. I would rather have Rick for another year than Mora.

    Hell… I’d rather have Sumlin over Mora. At least Sumlin would bring a version of the air raid along with Kliff Kingsbury (Leach’s former qb and disciple). Even Bellotti or June Jones. But, Mora… really?

    Dan is experimenting again with his third hire. Especially at the midnight hour. Pathetic!

    Dan needs to be fired.

  • BruinFaithful

    You F;n kidding me? What an uninspired retarded choice. I am F’n incensed. Of all the quality choices out there, this is the best this MORON can come up with? A guy who NOBODY wants and hasn’t been successful anywhere? This shhhhh is not going to go over well, let me tell you.

  • BruinFaithful

    BE REAL:

    You dirty Condom, more peculiar is your propensity to post on a Bruin Blog. What’s wrong, old Wolfie isn’t tickling your fancy? Since you can’t find anybody to F you, why don’t you go F yourself? Nobody wants you here, just like at home I suppose.

  • Anonymous

    Could you imagine if he brings Ken Norton home to UCLA as LB Coach & Tim McDonald in as a DB Coach? He coached them both @ San Francisco.

  • Jon’s Lunch


    Chris Foster, Adam Amaya, and Peter Yoon reportedly ate Jon Gold’s lunch at the Jim Mora Party.

    Chris Foster was quoted as saying, “Hey, I’ve been eating his lunch for the last 2 years. I don’t see what the big deal is now.”

    Adam Amaya said, “He left his sandwhich unattended for almost two hours. I got here a little after Foster. If I didn’t get to it, Sam Strong would have. He was eyeing it for a while.”

    Peter Yoon was found with what was left of Jon’s sandwhich in his mouth and mumbled, “No comment, Jon is going to kill me.”

  • Anonymous

    Laughing at the dweebs at Bruinsnation who thought they had sway. U have zero sway/influence u morons. How many hours did you waste posting hypotheticals about who or who shouldn’t get the job? Did u think anyone in the administration even listens to you? Especially Nestor? Dorks!

  • Anonymous

    I wish David stern can veto this move!

  • uscmike

    Like a chip off the old block: “What’s that? Ah — Bowl Game? Don’t talk about — Bowl Game?! You kidding me?! Bowl Game?! I just hope we can win a game! Another game!”

  • Battanpocket

    Man there are some bitter Bruins on here. Mora is a fine pick. A turn around program players coach. He took one of the worst organisations in the NFL to a championship game his first year as head coach in Atlanta. Then was asked to do the same in Seattle before the owners popped a chubby when Petey became available. High energy guy. Defensive coordinator in the NFL. That has to be a huge addition. He was not my first pick. But I think he will turn this horrible program around.

  • MichaelRyerson

    Holy crap! Guerrero has the audacity to hire a guy who showed interest in the job?? What could he be thinking? Plus he actually embarrassed us by approaching some guys who might have changed their minds about where they were coaching but they hadn’t. what if he hadn’t approached Peterson and subsequently somebody else took the shot and Peterson goes, saying he’d soured on the Boise alumini? How does Guerrero (and UCLA) look then? I wish your mommies and daddies would take those keyboards away from some of you gasbags.

  • UCLA Dynasty

    I know I was pretty pumped for the “Dream Team” hire back in the day, but this time, I’m really pumped. I mean, Mora brings a wealth of NFL defensive experience, so nothing on Lame Kitten’s laminated cartoon sheet will surprise or ovewhelm him or UCLA players. AND, he and Johnson both coached Vick, so they know how to handle/mold an athletic QB into a superstar like Hundley. It’s game over for those dummies across town.

  • BruinBurd

    I say F-Petersen and Boise. Bring’em to L.A. so we can stomp them. It’s now on Mora to fix it…in the mean time, we support and …. pray!

  • marvgoux

    Fire Guerrero!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • marvgoux

    It’s so fun watchin you ruins running around like a bunch of ants! 13 more years of mediocrity and a$$whippings ahead!

  • Covina Bruin


    I’m dying to know who woke you up at 1 a.m. with the Jim Mora news? This thing broke just before midnight Friday night! Needless to say, Dan Guererro is going to lambasted for this hire. Maybe the third time is a charm for him? Or perhaps it’s the beginning of the end for Dan! I’m so disappointed in this hire. But I’m a life-long Bruin fan and I’ll support the school’s choice. I just hope it’s a two-year contract!!

  • Ley

    Hey you Morons if you dont like the the new hire then quit your winning and we don’t need you as Bruin fans and you can go moan over there with Bruin Nation, or better yet go home to your husbands!!!!!!!! %$# Bitches.

    GO BRUINS and good luck Mora and time to hit the recruiting trail.

  • sandiegobruinfan

    Not my initial choice but I’m down with this hire as I start to digest it. He brings legit experience as an HC on the highest level, great football acumen developed from his upbringing right through his days as an assistant and HC. I’m more concerned about his desire and ability to recruit both on a regional and national basis.

    Go Bruins!

  • Doesn’t Matter

    I think it’s a good hire. As for bruinsnation (aka nestorites) – you guys are a bunch of fools thinking you had any sort of pull. Go ban some more people that dare to have a contrary opinion to yours. Go Bruins

  • MoeBruins

    Not sure why everyone here is so shocked!!!!!

    Every basketball and football coaching search has gone the same way since JD Morgan stepped down as AD.

    UCLA reaches out for 3-5 candidates who everyone in the world knows won’t take the job and turns them down and then turns to a lesser prestige guy who wanted it the whole time. (i.e. Toledo, Harrick, Dorrell, …).

    Only times this pattern didn’t follow was a) when Lavin was hired (AD at that time was dumb enough to think a smooth talking grad assistant was ready for the job based on a pre-season expected finish to a disappointing start) and b) Howland who happened to be a prestige coach whose dream job was UCLA and took less to be here.

    Will Mora work out? Who knows, Harrick did although for Mora’s sake if he does work out I sure hope he gets more love then Harrick ever did. Guy was being whacked by the complainers above a year after winning the national title…ugh.

  • Anonymous

    HAHA…nestorites…nice! ZERO pull equals a website that just cuts and pastes articles to its websites and then makes a bunch of crappy “analysis” i.e. comments and then crawls back into its hole because they know they have ZERO PULL. “Why Tressel is bad for UCLA”, um “Why UCLA needs to hire Petersen”. Dude, u guys have zero connections in or outside the athletic department…do yourselves a favor and shut down Bruinsnation and just follow Jon Gold.

  • cv

    A better coach than Rick, but will not strike fear in any part of the PAC 12

  • Anonymous

    Wow! I picked a bad time to quit sniffing glue. Here’s to 4 more years of taking a slingshot to a gunfight and Dan’s homerun hire

  • Trojan Conquest

    Who knows? As a Trojan, I’m glad UCLA didn’t hire Rich Rod or The Pirate. These type of offenses have historically bothered SC more than a pro-style. Let’s see what assistants he hires. This will be critical to his success. I’m actually one of the only Trojans who would like to see UCLA become relevant and make the Pac 12 stronger and the crosstown rivalry mean something nationally again. Just make sure you go back to wearing your home uniforms again.

  • Anonymous

    Cliffs Notes version: We’re screwed.

    Long version: I’m extemely disappointed, but not necessarily for how Mora will lead the players on the field; he ought to be able to put together a competent staff. I’m more worried about the recruits drying up. Say what you will about their coaching, and I agree that it was lacking, at best, but KD and RN brought in a good number of talented athletes. Now I feel like we’re back to Square One: a (hopefully) decent coach with NO handle on recruiting, no connections to CA hotbed schools, let alone a national presence, and a cupboard that could grow more bare with transfers and de-commits. Kids today don’t know the Mora name, father or son, nor should they with their lack of sustained success anywhere/current relevance. I never thought it would come to this, but the football team’s biggest selling point now is the institution itself and a UCLA degree. And how many 5-stars care about that, first and foremost (if at all). I’m sorry for the rant, fellow fans and trolls, but I believe at a time when we had “the financial resources” to do this hire right, we settled for a guy that should be PAYING the school for the opportunity he was just given. I refuse to believe there weren’t far more revelant candidates with interest in the job. I’ve been a fan since Sciarra, Tyler and Wally Henry beat Woody Hayes, and, sure, I’ve pined for the Donahue days in recent years. But I’ve also become more disillusioned with this program by the game. And I fear it’s going to get far, far worse before it gets any better. It’s about relevance people; either the team is or the coach is — that’s how you get the talent to keep the program relevant. We ain’t relevant anymore. Go Bruins!

  • Lifelong Bruin Fan

    Mora wasn’t my first choice but I think he’s a fine hire. The key now is who he is able to bring on board as assistants. I just hope he is given the freedom and budget to get whoever he wants without constraints. Of course the administration must also work with him to provide the facilities he needs for the program to be successful.

    For those unsupportive of this hire, there is certainly a question mark with Mora since he does not have college HC experience. However his vast NFL experience should not be discounted, and in fact I think it will give him an edge in recruiting. Instant cachet with recruits in their living rooms. He is also known to have close ties with the head coach at a Bellevue high school football power that produces blue chip players.

    The man is competitive, hungry, and no nonsense. I think it’s just a matter of time before these qualities will be reflected on the field.

  • Marc

    Now what about those rumors that he would bring Jim Tressel on staff as an assistant. I think that would be fantastic.

    This isn’t my first or second choice either, but I don’t get paid to make these choices. Let’s get behind these guys and see what they can do.

    As for the bruinsnation hacks. Come to the Rosebowl on game one, wear your bruinsnation gear, fly your bruinsnation flag and set up shop right by the south entrance. See how many supporters you have. You don’t have as much support as you’d like to believe. Murshed Zaheed and his followers are a bunch of losers. LOL

  • MoraTheSame

    Thanks for the warm welcome Bruins! Promise to keep up the winning ways, the gap has closed,moving that needle thing, and the monopoly is over…. Where?

  • Ley

    Bruin Nation must be some dorks who operate out there old room at there parents house!!! DC Bruin and Nestor should pack up shop and head to the other side of town!

    Go Bruins and I like that this coach is Defensive minded!!! Go Mora! Time to start assembling a solid staff.

  • Brock

    Today is the day I get rid of my ucla jersey. Until Guerrero is gone. Along with mora.

  • cv

    The reason it is Mora is the same as rick and karl, he agreed to the same terms as the previous coaches. No new offices , practice facilites, weight room, stadium, or revised entrance requirements. Remember rick and karl bit8hed about it on the way out!

  • UCLA Dynasty

    Now that we have the big time coach we need, it’s time for everyone to pony up for some state of the art football facilities like Oregon has and possibly try to develop a near-campus stadium similar to to what Houston and Minnesota did. I can’t wait for Mora to stand at center court of our next home basketball game and point across the street and tell them “We are coming for you ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!”

  • Sam Burdett

    Jon not to be rude but bruin fans need to get over their apathy before they get trampled. And you might want to catch up with your peers as well. Condoota (husky beat writer) scooped you by two hours. They take their football seriously in Seattle. Mora is definitely a new game in town.

  • bruinbiochem06

    I really hope Mora goes after OL coach Klemm. We need a good recruiter, especially with all the OL talent on the West Coast this year!

  • Anonymous

    Murshed “Nestor” Zaheed and the rest of the Bruins Nation hacks are fuming right now. They realize:

    A) They’re not getting the coach they want based on their “expert” criteria. Actually, they don’t know who to support because they don’t know how to support anybody. Murshed Zaheed’s political background makes him an expert in smear campaigns, so all they do is trash people.

    B) They have absolutely no pull or credibility. If fact they are a cancer to UCLA. Their constant slander is awful for the fans’ and alumni’s reputation. Then they wonder why nobody wants to coach here.

    C) They’ve never been laid (except to each other.)

    Thanks for the hard work, Jon. This is a real news site. Bruins Nation also likes to criticize your work because somehow they can do it better from behind their keyboards in Washington DC during internet porn breaks. I’m tired of them bashing everyone who puts hard work into their jobs related to UCLA athletics. Keep up the great work, Jon. You may have to take the high road regarding other hack blogs but we don’t.

  • Bob

    For all of the doomsdayer’s that think the world is now over for there pathetic life’s, this is what everyone was saying when SC hired the lame Pete Carrol who was at best average coaching in the NFL.

    The world is suppose to end next December anyway, dang the one year we make it to the Rose Bowl.

  • Lifelong Bruin Fan

    To the haters “threatening” to stop supporting UCLA now (by giving up your jersey or whatever), do us all a favor and also stay away when UCLA football returns to prominence.

    There is a time for bitching and complaining, and there is a time to band together and be supportive. Now that a decision has been made, it’s time for the latter. (Hmm, I wonder in what other sphere this could be useful.)

    Joe Schad tweeted UCLA “made dramatic increase in financial commitment to assistant coaches pool.” A good sign.

    As for the Bruins Nation cesspool, let them vomit all over each other.

  • Anonymous

    Mora is our coach. Time to support him. Hope we reach the next level. Either way, let’s act and donate in a way that makes UCLA more attractive to players and coaches. Yes to facilities, new uniforms, money for assistants, higher expectations, better attendance at games. Go Bruins!

  • 1987Bruin

    We’re slowly turning into UC Irvine.


    Returns to prominence? Wouldn’t UCLA have had to be prominent at one time in order to return? hmm…interesting.

  • Concerned Bruin

    Reading through these comments, it’s clear there’s a lot of anymosity for the work done over at

    What bothers me the most though, is the disparaging use of one of the poster’s names, Nestor. The unsaid allegation here is “Oh look he has a Muslim sounding name, you guys gonna listen to that guy?!?! If Nestor’s name was “John Williams” would we see people calling him “John ‘Nestor’ Williams”… answer honestly.

    Quoting his Muslim sounding name disparagingly is disgusting. As a Bruin, it makes me sick to read this kind of racist personal attack on a fellow Bruin.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks to you Dan we now have a civil war within the UCLA fanbase. I’ve been a fan of UCLA since 1964 and have never seen anything like this

  • Brock

    @Lifelong Bruin I have been a supporter of the last three coaches, all of them went up in flames. This was finally a year where we had the funds to go out there and get a big name coach and who do we go out and get? I hope we get some ridiculously good assistant coaches or I’m going to lose all hope in this program.

  • Ley

    While all the other outlets are applauding the hire of Mora (NFL Connections and solid Defensive minded Coach). The boys over at the Big Bang Theory (Bruin Nation) are still at it!!! Get over it anyone that is pissing and moaning like a little tempered tantrum kid. Mora is our coach and if you were a true Bruin you would support him. If you don’t support him you know where the door is.

    Go Bruins

  • Lifelong Bruin Fan

    @FightOntoVictory: If we have to argue whether UCLA was a prominent football program in the past under Sanders (national championship and four straight top 6 finishes), Prothro (four top 10 finishes and Rose Bowl victory), Vermeil (however brief but a Rose Bowl victory and no. 5 finish), Donahue (twelve top 20 finishes and five top 10 finishes along with NCAA record 8 straight bowl victories and 3 Rose Bowl victories), and even the first few years of Toledo (blown call away from BCS championship game), well there’s not much to discuss. Granted UCLA has not reached the level of success at USC in football, but to argue that UCLA has not been a prominent football program is asinine.

    At any rate, I look forward to our future matchups against USC. The tide may not turn immediately but it will turn.

  • sfBruin

    While the hiring of Jim Mora has some question marks and obviously isn’t a slam dunk hire, I’m not sure who everyone expected as head coach that wouldn’t have any (and that UCLA could realistically get at this point). Every reasonable option that Guerrero had would have had some detractors and haters.

    If we have another 3-4 years of mediocrity and 50-0 blowouts and this ends up being another Guerrero failure then I think people have the right to say “I told you so” and be angry. But until then, as bruins fans let’s just support this decision and coach and see what happens. BTW, I know it has been mentioned, but remember how much of a slam dunk most of us thought the “Dream Team” with Chow/Neu/Walker was, and look how that turned out or how upset Carroll detractors were with his hire at SUC.

  • Cheat On


    You apparently are another Trogan honk who conveniently thinks that college football didn’t exist before 2002.

    I’m sure you were running smack from 1980 through 1998 when the Bruins were winning 13 of 18 contests, including 8 in a row, which USC despite Cheaty Petey’s hard work, still have not matched.

    But that’s ok. We all know Trogan fans are delusional front runners who bail when the Larry Smith’s and Ted Tollner’s of the world hit the program

  • Anonymous

    Ha – I love the comment about Nestor at Bruins Nation. He got his @ss kicked in school and has never kissed a girl. The so-called fans on that site donate zero to the athletic dept. I’m NOT saying this is a good hire one way or the other. But if you want to read fan commentary from actual donors who have access to the administration and at least some voice through their $$$, go to BruinReportOnline. The reception to Mora there is mixed, but the fans there at least have influence. They’re donors.

  • Amillennialist

    “You may have to take the high road regarding other hack blogs but we don’t.”

    That’s got to be the line of the century. (I have to disagree in one respect though: When dealing with bruinsnation, every road is the high road.)

    As for Concerned’s “concern”? A few points:

    1) Islam is an ideology, not a race, so whether or not disapproval of it is valid, it CAN’T be racist.

    2) No one above has posted anything disparaging regarding Islam, so if YOU think that using Murshed’s actual name sounds “racist,” then that says more about you than anyone else here.

    3) I can’t speak for others, and perhaps I’m wrong, but I believe the purpose for including Nestor’s real name is to remove the anonymity behind which he hides cravenly. You know, like the Wizard of Oz: “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!” Nestor’s a fraud and a tyrant.

    4) If you know anything about traditional, orthodox, historical, Qur’anic Islam, then you know that Muhammad preached and practiced genocide, pedophilia, rape, slavery, torture, mutilation, theft, extortion, wife-beating, polygyny, religious and gender apartheid, anti-Semitism, deceit, treason, and blasphemy, warning his followers, “Allah made me do it, and you will too, or else!”

    So while I believe that we should treat others the way we want to be treated, it is neither irrational nor discriminatory to be concerned about anyone claiming to worship a god giving open-ended, universal commands to “kill the pagans wherever you find them” (Qur’an 9:5).

  • Anonymous

    I am laughing really hard at Nestor’s latest rant that he just posted…LMAO! Dude…r u mentally stable? I bet he never played oop warner or high school football…lol.

  • W.E.B. Dupree

    Ha! A discussion about your new coach degenerates into Muslim-bashing! Some of you should come over to Wolf’s blog — you’ll fit right in. Over at Inside USC this morning, the discussion about Mora somehow led to gripes about affirmative action and Obama.

  • NorthCampusBruin

    @ Amillennialist

    Take your xeonphobic shit elsewhere. Everyone hates Nestor because he’s an A-HOLE not because of his religion. Way to make this thread lose all credibility and become completely icky.

    Ugh, this is why we can’t have nice things…

  • Amillennialist

    @WEB and NorthCampus,

    Is your absurd defamation the product of ignorance or malice? I explicitly stated that disapproval of Nestor here has nothing to do with whatever his religion might be. (You do realize that most Americans of Arabic descent are Christians, don’t you?)

    I simply stated what Muhammad said and did, and you think that’s bad. What does that say about you?

    Speaking of “losing credibility.”

    If Muhammad demanded the slaughter of Asma bint Marwan (google her, geniuses) because she mocked him, then how is pointing out that fact (from Islam’s own “sacred” texts, no less!) “xenophobic”?

    Tell “Muslim-bashing” to Asma bint Marwan. Oh, you can’t, because Muhammad had her assassinated:

    “Then (occurred) the sariyyah of Umayr ibn adi Ibn Kharashah al-Khatmi against Asma Bint Marwan [. . .] She used to revile Islam, offend the prophet and instigate the (people) against him. She composed verses. Umayr Ibn Adi came to her in the night and entered her house. Her children were sleeping around her. There was one whom she was suckling. He searched her with his hand because he was blind, and separated the child from her. He thrust his sword in her chest till it pierced up to her back. Then he offered the morning prayers with the prophet at al-Medina. The apostle of Allah said to him: “Have you slain the daughter of Marwan?” He said: “Yes. Is there something more for me to do?” He [Muhammad] said: “No . . . ” (Ibn Sa’d’s Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir).

    Rather than nescient name-calling, why don’t you deal with fact? Try again, boys.

  • Anonymous

    Nestor will soon have to lie in the bed he’s making. He’s insulted too many intelligent UCLA graduates. His ego has ultimately led his identity out into the public. A simple google search reveals just how many people he’s pissed off and where his true reputation lies. He best not apply for a job anytime soon. Furthermore, he best also hope people don’t start emailing his current employer about his abuse toward UCLA alumni on company time. I’m sure they’d be very interested to know who they’re employing for their internet relations.

  • Anonymous

    That’s correct – Nestor has never played organized football on any level. But…..he does collect Star Wars action figures.

  • Concerned Bruin

    Amillennialist, I’m not here to debate religion or semantics with you.

    You claim to mean no ill will to this blogger Nestor for his real name, but then you go on to post some cut and pasted rant pulled from one of the many “islam is the evil boogey man” websites… for what reason exactly?

    If you are sincere that your constant re-stating of this person’s name has nothing to do with xenophobia, islamophobia, racism, or whatever other term you want to use, then you could have simply stated so, as you did, and left it at that.

    All the rest of your post was off-topic and bizarre to say the least…

  • NorthCampusBruin


    It’s clear the guys not right in the head and nobody else supports or condones that kind of nonsense. Everyone please ignore the troll from this point forward.

  • Amillennialist


    Your fellow dhimmis mocked the possibility that someone might be concerned about Islamic theology, which shows only your unfamiliarity with it. That’s not “bizarre,” that’s called, “literacy.”

    By the way, those are quotes not from a “boogey [sic] man” site — what an absurd ad hominem — but from Islam’s “sacred” texts.

    Why are you so eager to lie in defense of 1400 years of Islamic rape, slavery, and slaughter?


    How is quoting Islamic authoritative texts “not right in the head”?

    What are you, some kind of Islamophobe?

    “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter . . . ” (Qur’an 5:33).

    Ibn Kathir says of this verse: “‘Wage war’ mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways. Mischief in the land refers to various types of evil.” So, Muhammad requires execution, crucifixion, or cutting off hands and feet from opposite sides for “disbelief.”

    “Allah’s Apostle said: ‘I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle [. . .] if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me . . . ‘” (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).

    “It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise” (Qur’an 8:67).

    “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘. . . I have been made victorious with terror . . .'” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220).

  • Amillennialist

    It’s a simple, logical process, gentlemen:

    -Did Muhammad preach and practice the enslavement or slaughter of non-Muslims who refuse the “invitation” to convert?

    -Has traditional orthodox Islam attempted to obey those commands over the centuries?

    -Does any major school of Islamic jurisprudence today reject jihad against the non-Muslim world?

    -Do Muslims today attempt to obey and emulate the commands and example of their “Ideal Man” Muhammad?

  • Sandy Underpants

    You Koran haters ought to take some time to read the Bible. The Judeo-Christian God was all for slavery, woman ownership, child murder, homophobia, racism. Much of it has been edited from it’s original text, but what’s still in there should be enough for any level headed person to throw it in the garbage and keep it away from our kids.

  • Amillennialist

    False moral relativism? Shameless defamation of the foundation of both Western Civilization and our modern concepts of human rights? Aren’t you embarrassed, Sandy?

    Even if your claims regarding the Bible were true — they’re not — that does nothing to negate nearly one and one-half millennia of slavery, rape, and slaughter in obedience to Allah.

    As for your slanderous and absurd, “The Judeo-Christian God was all for slavery, woman ownership, child murder, homophobia, racism”?

    Prove it.

    Be specific.

    I’ll be waiting.


    At this point, if Sandy has any sense, he’ll just leave this thread alone because he knows he can’t substantiate his scurrilous lies.

    But I’ll bet he doesn’t have that much sense. My guess is that Sandy’s going to resort either to name-calling (perhaps something involving bodily functions) or (if he has any pride) he’s going to search for some intellectually-dishonest and deranged biblical slander site, where he’ll find a number of silly talking points, all of which are easily refuted.

    In any case, Sandy’s referring probably to provisions of the Mosaic Law in the Old Testament. It is important to keep in mind that those laws applied *only* to the people of Israel, and they entered into that covenant *voluntarily*.

    The laws pertaining to slavery were not an endorsement of the practice, but an amelioration of the ubiquitous institution’s effects. In fact, the Old Testament’s notions of the value of individual liberty under God found full expression in the New, where the same God declared through His Apostles “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free” (spiritual freedom, primarily) and “If you can gain your freedom, do so” (from actual slavery).

    (In this context, it is worth noting also that the Founding Fathers, in creating a nation — according to Abraham Lincoln — “conceived in Liberty,” pointed directly to the God of the Bible as the Source and Guarantor of our “unalienable rights.”)

    Contrast that with Islam’s mandates regarding slavery: Prepubescent girls as young as nine are made into sex slaves (“wives”); a woman belongs to a man as a “tilth” for him to “plow” as he will; non-Muslim women are lawful for Muslims to keep as sex slaves (even if they were married before their capture); non-Muslims under the “dhimma” are required to submit to a variety of measures (limited only by the cruelty, creativity, and coercive force of their Muslim overlords) designed to degrade, defile, and demoralize its victims until they see conversion as their only means of escape.

    As for women, those elements of the Mosaic Law to which Sandy (or his women’s studies professor) refers were intended to provide a level of justice and protection to women unknown in the ancient world. Sandy cleverly forgets to note passages like:

    “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband” (Ephesians 5).

    And “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28), leaves room for neither racism, classism, nor sexism.

    With regard to “homophobia,” what civilization in the history of Man has endorsed homosexuality? Even a completely-amoral, atheistic naturalist has to recognize the problems with sodomy-as-reproduction; how can any species survive exclusive same-gender sexual activity?

    And besides, “homophobia” is a nonsense word, a term utterly devoid of meaning. What is “fear” of the “same,” anyway? Anyone can stick “phobia” to the end of their particular crime against God and Nature to try to silence criticism of it. Imagine! If only Hitler had characterized resistance to his goals as “Naziphobia”! We’d all be speaking German now.

    Sandy should be ashamed.