Here’s an answer about how USC will survive NCAA sanctions.
Q: Pop Goes The Weasel said:
My own feeling is that the NCAA penalty was so over-the-top, as you yourself even said, that we should have sued the whole rotten NCAA, brought out all kinds of things, and probably reformed the dirty institution once and for all. I don’t see where we had anything to lose. I would have waited, tho, for the appeals route to be finished, on the outside chance we get a break, but I would have told them privately of our intentions to sue unless we had the scholarship limitation reduced to five per year for three years. Max shows up for games, but either he doesn’t care, or has little fight in him for this travesty, in my humble opinion.
We are going to lose a lot of games and a lot of money because of this. Most of my Trojan friends have cancelled donations that were planned, and many of us have even changed our wills, due to the lack of fight shown by Max. I wonder if he realizes this, and am wondering what your thoughts are on this matter. Many of the kids on the board don’t realize the effect of being down 30 men in three years. We are dead in the water for 6-7 years, and unjustly so–just compare the penalty we received against the penalties other places received. I think PC was right when he said the NCAA had an agenda, and that Mike was right when he said we are the envy of the nation[tho granted he shouldn’t have said it] Thanx for letting me vent, Scott, and, again, I’d like to hear your thoughts speaking as a Trojan alum and an avid fan of college football.
A: I don’t think USC should have sued the NCAA before the appeal process took course. USC’s administration felt that cooperation would get farther than confrontation, like the previous administration (Mike Garrett, etc.). Also keep in mind that USC might not be down 30 players because if only 20 players left after this season, it could replace almost all of them with the 15 allowable scholarships. So I think USC will weather the sanctions better than other schools especially when recruiting is still going pretty well. I agree the penalties were too severe and the NCAA seems very selective in its punishment, but I also think the program will weather the sanctions.
Geez Scott, or is that Neville Chamberlain?
wolfman, you must really be drinking the Southern Cal Kool-Aid to say the sanctions were too harsh!
the graft perpetrated by Bush, Mayo, McNair and Floyd dwarfs anything in college history!! even the Newtonian attempts at selling services amounted to chicken-feed compared to the scale and hubris of the Southern Cal reign of cheatin’!!
but don’t sweat it, wolfman, you were asked to speak as an alum. it’s cool, man.
I won’t even go back and touch the Bush Crush the anti-SC folks have– talk about beating a dead horse.
But although the sanctions obviously don’t fit the crime, I don’t see where winning the appeal and having 5 scholies a year restored is going to make a huge difference.
Still, the kids keep wanting to go to ol’ SC, evidenced by the Top-5 recruiting class, and so the Trojans will continue to win well, although a National Championship is probably out of reach for several years.
But, heck, championships are hard to win even if a school is at full-strength, and besides, SC had its run in the 2000s that no Trojan will ever forget.
Was that a question or a filibuster?
I think any doomsday scenario involving the football program is overblown. USC continues to be near the top of the list of recuiting-rich Southern California kids, and a few years of scholarship reductions won’t change that. That being said, after the golden years of Pete Carroll, we’ve become accustomed (and somewhat spoiled) by top-4 finishes in the BCS standings. That might not have been realistic on a consistent basis even without the sanctions. I figure coaching can sway the win-loss outcomes of at least several games a year. Who is to say Kiffin could have achieved those results if he was the head coach with those Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart-led teams. I’m hoping Kiffin develops into a fine head coach to go along with his excellent recruiting, but I’m just saying.
I definitely don’t think we’re “dead in the water for 6-7 years” or anything of the sort, even with the sanctions in their present form. As to any possible NCAA agenda, sure they have an agenda: to protect the integrity of amateur athletics. Do they slip up and screw up in certain cases? YES! However, the agenda of many USC fans is to get out of the sanctions at any cost. I am a fan and graduate of USC, but I don’t want a dirty program, even if some other schools and/or conferences don’t have the same altruistic motivations. I think the tact adopted by Nikias and Haden is the right one. Diplomacy and reason are superior to arrogance when dealing with those that control your fate. The NCAA isn’t going to be bullied by a threat of a lawsuit. Even if I do feel the sanctions are unfair (and I do), I can understand that a statement needed to be sent by the NCAA. I only wish they would have been more consistent with the Cam Newton and Ohio State cases. Just like Roger Goodell set the tone for a more strictly enforced personal conduct policy, the NCAA could have built on the example they set with USC. Regardless, we will endure and fight on through these sanctions. Let’s just take our medicine like men and fix the problem that got us in this situation to begin with.
@uscmba, I appreciate your fine and well expressed opinion however I personally feel that the sanctions were just so extremely over the top, especially when compared to other ncaa decisions/actions … that we just should not basically lay back, spread em and take it! The further facts that of all people, having the likes of Ms Conboy and especially Paul Dee be the whippers, it is especially bitter being the whippee in this.
If we get no relief, or if we actually get more pounding, it would be very hard to swallow, just turning the other cheek.
Fight On
uscmba posted a sensible response — a rarity for this fan base. Kudos to him. Sensibility would take issue with one point, however. The 30 scholarship sanction MIGHT have been excessive if USC — with the urging of its fan base — had responded to the original Yahoo! report (which turned out to be pretty much all true) and conducted a legitimate self investigation and self sanctioned 5 or 6 scholarships for 3 years. But the arrogant denial of the obvious-to-everyone-else for 5 years (and still misidentified as “envy”) by both school and posting fan base invited a beat down. The NCAA is SUPPOSED to be self-regulating. See North Carolina, LSU, and many others that hold themselves accountable. But the denial and lack of integrity among Trojans continues. In this thread alone we see a Trojan saying USC should have tried extortion, threatening a law suit if their appeal is not granted in full. What unmitigated gall. No Trojan criticized this. The Trojans’ sanctions were MERCIFUL — to the rest of the PAC 10/12. The appropriate TV ban would have hurt the other schools, so was not imposed.
Not only was the appeal a continuance of the resistance to justice, it allowed the Trojans to sign almost as many new players this year as the last two classes combined. That’s one way to “deal” with sanctions! The scholarship sanction will not actually begin until after the bowl ban is over. So USC is lessening the effect of the sanctions by spreading them out over more years than originally prescribed — unilaterally.
To that Trojan who lamented the Bush-beaten dead horse, look to Heritage Hall. HH could have, and should have, ended this 5 years ago. The appeal added another year to the already too-long process. That the fan base STILL hasn’t seen the wisdom of self-regulation speaks a lot about Trojans. However, there is hope many will grow up and become other uscmba’s. Slim hope.
THANK YOU, TORPEDOMAN———-YOU ARE NOT ONLY KING OF THE HILL, BUT KING OF THE GILLIES AS WELL—–THANX FOR YOUR SUPPORT, STEVEORINO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FIGHT ON FOR OL’ SC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
USCMBA AND BOZOBUS——–A LOT OF PEOPLE COME ON THIS BOARD POSING AS TROJANS WHEN THEY REALLY ARE NOT.
PERHAPS PSYCHIATRIC COUNSELLING AT ucla WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR YOU BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TO SCOTT WOLF———–THANK YOU, SIR.
@PGTW, very sad if you are indeed a Trojan. I am a real Trojan, despite what you might think. Being a Trojan is about more than supporting a football team. It means I have my own mind, which does not move in concert with single-minded people. I’m embarrassed if you actually went to USC. I’d like to think us real Trojans can actually formulate and express well-thought out ideas and arguments and not revert to name-calling or ridiculous statements (especially infantile ALL-CAPS rantings).
@torpedoman and @BozoBus, I totally understand both your opposing views and agree with both of you in some way. I did state in my original comment that I felt the sanctions were unfair, but also realize I might be biased, as I am an alumnus. I also know that whenever I talk to those who are not USC fans, they tend to think the punishment was appropriate. Regardless, I am very proud we have someone like Pat Haden steering the ship in this difficult time for USC football. I think we need to tread carefully lest we have any serious violations while the microscope is focused upon us. Fight on!
@Pop Goes The Weasel,
Amazing that you have finally surfaced. Due to a bad computer crash I lost your contact. Will you please email me at your convenience sir.
Fight On
@uscmba, The only “outsiders” that I have communicated with face to face that believe that the sanctions were appropriate are all bruins. The dissappointment that you got from the consistency problems with the ncaa, are in fact a huge reason for my complaint. The lack of consistency is a big part of why I feel that the ncaa is just a sham! Their so called “statement” is invalid for those reasons alone, not to mention the absurdity of Conboy and Dee’s association here!
PS..PGTW types upper case most of the time due to his significantly advanced age and severe blindness.
@Bozo…Perceived arrogance is no basis for an excessive “beat down”! Your wishful thinking is your basis for the over sanctioning or beat down to use your words.
The appeal was not specifically made as a deliberate resistance to what you believe is justice, or as a sneaky tool to draw another full recruiting haul, but actually because the University feels that they were in fact unjustly over sanctioned. Only an idiot would not appeal a ruling that they didn’t agree with.
Again a statement purely of your wishful thinking. Who in their right mind would just lay back and take what they consider to be unjust punishment?
Regarding self sanctions. Why would they have self sanctioned when they felt that they were not guilty of such outrageous and over the top sanctions? I mean there’s a private deal between Bush’s parents and a couple of gangsters, many miles away from campus and with no association with the University! So why would they want to self sanction? for fears of what? Where does the so called responsibility for that lie?
I feel that you are just a jubilant hater that’s full of yourself over our sanctioned status. I’ll bet it infuriates you no end, that we were at least able to recruit such a nice class this year. Bottom line.. Eat your heart out.. because only you haters think that we got fairly treated and WE will persevere, regardless.
Fight On
TO USCMBA:
AS TORPEDOMAN SAID, I AM NEARLY BLIND WHEN IT COMES TO TYPING—–YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU HAD BEEN ON THE BOARD FOR A WHILE. YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS WHEN YOU LACK ALL THE INFORMATION.
THAT BEING SAID, IF YOU ARE NOT EXTREMELY ANGRY AT THIS RIDICULOUSLY UNJUST [OVER-THE – TOP AS SCOTT WOLF SAID] PENALTY, THEN PLEASE DON’T INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE BY TELLING ME YOU ARE A REAL TROJAN. I SEE VERY VERY CLEARLY WHEN IT COMES TO WHO IS, AND WHO IS NOT, A REAL TROJAN. YOU, SIR OR MADAM, MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ATTENDED THE UNIVERSITY, BUT DON’T DENIGRATE US BY CALLING YOURSELF A REAL TROJAN. THANK YOU.
@uscmba…nice degree. BTW, it’s “WE real Trojans” NOT “US real Trojans”.
@PGTW… Very sad. Even if you are blind, that does not explain the ridiculous psychiatric statement. Your longevity on this board doesn’t make your opinions more valid. Plain sad if that is what age does to a person.
@NOB… LOL… you sure added a lot to the discourse. Pathethic.
@Torpedoman… good arguments. I wish all on here were as reasoned in their points of view.
I’ve seen a lot of bruins pose as Trojans on this board, and I can say with relative certainty that uscmba is a Trojan. There is nothing in any of his posts that would suggest that he is not. Just because he is not in favor of saber-rattling with the crooked NCAA does not make him a phony.
I agree that Haden and Nikias are handling this well – so far. If the sanctions are upheld and the dynamic duo merely sits on their collective hands, however, I will be less than pleased. The NCAA clearly overstepped on this case and the punishment was so out of whack with precedent, that it would be literally indefensible in a court of law. Of course, the NCAA works unilaterally without regard to rules of order or justice, so it’s simply par for the course with them.
Also, I’ve been on this board a heck of a long time, yet I’m not familiar with PGTW. I may have seen a few posts over the past few months, but that moniker does not seem overly familiar to me. Perhaps this is the same person who used to post under the name, George Tirebiter. As I remember, he always used all caps in his correspondence.
SURESHOT———CONGRATS———YOU GOT IT——-GOOD MEMORY
USCMBA=======YOUR SCREEN NAME SPEAKS TO YOUR EGOTISTICAL NATURE—————-THE PSYCHIATRIC COMMENT WAS MEANT AS A JOKE–PERHAPS I HIT TO CLOSE TO HOME——–I HAVE AN MBA AND MORE, BUT DON’T ADVERTISE IT————I PLAYED BALL FOR JEFF CRAVATH AND JESS HILL——-YOU????????????????
@PGTW… Whatever old man. Go back to your hole. I don’t pick on old men.