USC Morning Buzz: Let The 2016 Quarterback Derby Begin

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JUJU.HOLIDAY.BOWL.2015

I remember right after the 2008 Rose Bowl victory over Illinois, Mark Sanchez telling me he was going to start working the next day on being the starting quarterback. And I think Max Browne and Sam Darnold have a similar attitude.

USC needs a clutch QB. Think about the 2-minute offense this season. Ineffective against Stanford at the Coliseum, unable to get even a field goal when down 10 points. Unable to come back against Washington. JuJu Smith-Schuster is open on this final deep pass against Wisconsin but overthrown. This is why I will not believe “USC has a new quarterback” to be a crutch next season. It might help.

129 thoughts on “USC Morning Buzz: Let The 2016 Quarterback Derby Begin”

  1. Kessler over throws? I thought he was the guy with the weak arm that couldn’t throw long. USC needs a lot of things, one of which is a mobile QB, another is a line and backs that know how to block for the QB.
    I am hoping Darnold gets a fair shot, but then I have never seen Browne (execpt clean up last season) or Darnold in action. It cannot just be a coronation of Browne. Fink is going to be a consideration also.

    • If Helton is savvy he’ll understand his ‘bonhomme’ at USC is short lived at best.

      The smart move is to have a hard and exhausting contest between Browne and Darnold.

    • Whoever the qb is, get one that runs the ball, and as important, get some ‘O’ lineman that can block.

  2. Decent job Wolf. See, you don’t have to play the village idiot. Make it your resolution this year to be a real reporter.

  4. Hard to believe this is actually a Wolfie post. Rational. Informative. I’m stunned. It was like reading a little gutty Troll post that was suddenly smart and not written by a degenerate or a drunk. Hallelujah. It’s 2016. The world became a different place.

  5. Why is everyone all of the sudden down on Max Browne? He hasn’t even started, and played a full game .

    • I’m guessing because we suspect Browne can’t run and we’re tired of being handicapped with a QB who can’t give us that dimension, especially since it’s been used so effectively against us over the years.

      • That was a good reply. I’m really concerned about Browne’s lack of mobility. The game just seems to be evolving away from guys like Max Browne. It’s the same as basketball becoming a perimeter game instead of one revolving around a 7ft center.

        • I agree. The game has changed and USC is caught in bubble screen hell with a QB who can’t run the read option. If you have Aaron Rodgers or Carson Palmer, you take him. Otherwise, go with the guy who can scramble for 80-100 yds a game and hope he can pass just well enough to win. Plenty of other programs are doing that today. USC’s stuck in neutral because Kiffer and Sark were the wrong men for the job.

          • We’re both old schoolers though, don’t we still give the incumbent guy the inside track? Have we evolved that much to seriously think Darnold has a legitimate shot? Helton wants to play the role of the classic coach with the classic gameplan, right? Browne is your starter…

          • One can only hope. If it’s even, give it to Browne. Otherwise, may he best man play. I’m gonna give Helton the benefit of the doubt and suggest he’ll make the right call.

          • Several schools have had big success with using more than one QB, so perhaps we could go in that direction also. Depends on the talent level

    • Fred, if Sam were the perceived front runner many of the folks who are supporting him now as the perceived underdog would be piling on him. Fans are fickle beings. And most fans have no clue as to what Max or Sam are capable of

    • Fred, I am not down on Browne but I have seen so many comments about bringing him in when nobody knows what he can do. I for one want all the guys to have a fair shot is all I am saying.

      • May I make what I think is a helpful suggestion, steveg? Check out both Sam and Max’s high school highlights on YouTube and see if you don’t conclude that Sam has the potential to bring much more to USC than Max. Sam is more elusive, runs harder, throws with more authority —and this counts for a lot, given our o-line– looks harder to bring down than Max. Admittedly neither is the same player now as he was in high school but this will help give you an idea as to who’s got what. [The one caveat: Max appears smart and quick witted in interviews —and although it is considered bad form to mention intellect in sports –having a smart quarterback for a change can’t hurt USC—getting thru your reads one hundredth of a second faster can make all the difference in those last second drives].

        • True about high school highlights. Both look good. Now the competition is even on the playing field. Adoree is evidence to that. This is when a 3 star can outplay a 5 star. I am hoping for some excitement at QB is all. Spring hopefully will tell us a lot.

          • Ha! You’re right, steveg. Spring meant something different when I was 18 years old —now it’s all about spring practice.

      • Hilarious imagery—mixture of National Geographic Channel and 2015 USC lowlights.

    • Reading the last couple years the reports from practice,
      players interviews,and basic talk Max has tools Cody
      Doesn’t… Without vastly improved OL play,pass protection
      QB is going be hampered same way Cody was.The “Derby”
      begins with the OL.Max could be an excellent QB,Darnold
      Also.Greene is a very capable player himself.Fink,well not even
      sure he should be a Trojan . But most importantly let’s build a
      Defense that dominates,a OL that dominates,heck we had two
      Backs with near 1000 yrd. Seasons.Block better and the passing
      game works,the run game explodes .

      • I’m not sure we should assume an evolution from zero to everything in our 0-line, peter. I think the most we can hope for is incremental improvement over the course of the 2016 season (and, needless to say, no where near enough early improvement to stand up to Alabama or Stanford). If I’m right, and I think I am, we need Sam’s mobility more than Max’s extra practice time next year in order to make a go of it in the early part of the schedule.

        • This is a veteran line,poorly coached,with all the ingredients to
          Be quite good.Agreed zero to excellent not going to happen
          yet,Zero to good first game ,coached well quite possible.Alabama ,
          as good as they are,will have a lot of new starters on D,Stanford
          too. Callway is a veteran OL coach that has years of SEC experence.We will see.
          You may be quite right concerning Sam,a new QB coach and with Tee possibly picking starter.Will be interesting.But dang ,get us a great DC!….right now it seems Pendergrass and Aranda are the front runners, to me give $000000 to Aranda and let this guy go
          To work.

          • You are quite lucid today, peter (no surprise there). Throw in someone to guide Special Teams and a way more rigorous conditioning program and we just might have a TEAM next year —rather than a collection of talented kids who don’t hit or play hard when it counts.

          • 1st – get them to quit eating the ‘Big Mac’ and ‘Animal Style’ burgers – bad shape both sides of the line.
            2nd – nice if someone went up to discuss the O line that Concord De La Salle employs to see what gain might be there – if USC chooses not to rest assured some other program shall.

          • I would love to see us learn the “art” of the De La Salle O-line —but, as we discussed before, Alv —aren’t you concerned about Pact 12 officials calling motion penalties on something they haven’t seen before? Even the De La Salle coaches talk to the refs before the game to assess how they’re going to be calling their fast starts off the ball.

          • Mike I get that but remember the biggest lineman they had was 216 lb. – the biggest and there was one @ 196 lbs.. Something is very unique about what they are doing – be sweet to be in on the ground floor.

            A good coach takes whatever is out there just as a good businessman does – take what can be gleaned from that program.

          • Obviously, De La Salle is doing something VERY right up front. It couldn’t hurt to find out how they orchestrate it —but I wonder if our guys have the discipline to implement their system or our refs have the smarts to watch this new wrinkle unfold without automatically reaching for the yellow handkerchiefs.

          • Definitely not—-and maybe Haden could get an advisory ruling from the Pac 12 on how they would approach officiating this innovation in line play (I guess I’m courting a slew of anti-Haden replies with this suggestion, Alv].

          • Not from me – that’s Pat’s job

            Man you noticed how many USC players are being used in the Rose Bowl commercial breaks?

          • Knowing how much more inadequate Stanford will make USC look, I can’t bear to watch the Rose Bowl, Alv. This will be the first time I’ve missed it since 1962.

          • Yeah, I had a feeling they weren’t gonna be able to keep up with that damn McCaffrey—who’s gonna be running like even more of a madman next year on his way to the Heisman. Nice to know we’ll get a chance to see him right after Alabama.

          • Well remember we did contain him in the second half save for that blown misassignment by Wilcox on that 67 yd. td – we contained him

          • Actually, that’s true, Alv. For some reason, I have, what is known in religious circles, as a glorified memory of how effective he was against us.

          • They look great in high school where the worst player on DeLa Salle is better than the best player on most of their competition. At the D1 level, the speed and ability tends to neutralize a lot of gimmicks.

          • Steve I just hope someone at Heritage Hall read that article and is considering a looksie – again if we don’t rest assured that article has been seen elsewhere and someone else on some other Div I program will to our detriment.

            I remember Helton mentioning the use of social media that is being used I believe at Stanford and OR I recall – he was focused on the gain therein.

          • Just a suggestion but try to proof your good posts with a hard left justify on each line of text – the script is scattered i.e. easier to read.

          • Man I’m sorry for that.I live most of the time in mountains. Bad reception, on a cell.
            Plus I have a Taupe marker.

          • Yes your absence was noted by my minions….the Land Shark was waiting at Palomar after the C-130A upchucked it onto the tarmac. I was informed of the ‘no show’….alas what could have been! We returned to Hawthorne Airport and are now focused to assay our gain and your loss.

            BTW there’s always the joke that is Stanford’s band to move one to watch paint dry….paint dry…..mauve…..carnation….(hey this is really getting a ‘festive’ thang to it!).

            Happy New Year 2016!

          • The Duel was agreed upon for second Full moon after signing Day.
            Much to my shagren, my response to your revised proposal was deleted .Either the moderator or a cleverly placed agent of yours removed it.It was probably due to my reference that in Chernobyl ,the sky is green and the earth blue on a Spring day.
            Plus the fact, only a C120 can land at McClellan airport….
            Happy New Year to you and Yours

          • “…or a cleverly placed agent of your…’!!!
            How dare you cast your unfounded aspersions upon my honor!

            I demand satisfaction sir!

            As to ‘McClellan’ – that gutless clown of a general…getting nit picking are we? It’s in Palomar right?

            I’m proposing we meet as Saturn aligns with Mars …. let’s see that would be….ahhh the 10th of Cunaconga….that or you’ll be made to watch this sad IA team getting their behinds spanked over and over by Stanford…..Little Big Horn had nothing on this ‘berezina’!

            To the Grampians…..fly!

          • You demand satisfaction?You and that Brit Jagger. Keep trying.
            To the legions of
            Freedonnia, gather! To the water district.

          • Sorry old sport – I did try to reply twice but alas the ‘dream police’ (they live inside of my head) are hard core monitoring – there it is.

            Know this my fav was always ‘Street Fighting Man’ – the micked acoustic box guitar by Keith; Charlie in-bound w. his patented off-beat on the tom tom and away we go.

          • Summers of my youth……
            Volleyball on the sand from sun up
            to sun down….The beautiful young lovelies
            And ” Under my Thumb” playing in my head.
            You will not find any objection from me
            with any RS’s tune..Just Paint it Black.

      • A dual threat QB like Darnold or Pro-Style pocket passer like Browne could do wonders behind a solid OLine. If we get our OLine in order we will be fine.

    • Im rooting for Darnold or Greene – it’s time for a mobile qb with some guts, the luxury of it all is that we know it will be a major upgrade no matter what

      • So, Yolo, how disappointed will you be when they go with Max and we have all the same problems in 2016 that we had in 2015?

        • Max will still be a major upgrade over Cody, and we cant go wrong with Darnold, Fink, Greene!!!

          Happy New Year!!!

  6. I don’t think we are exceptional enough in other areas to win without someone special at QB. I think Cody proved that over the course of his career. Bama and LSU can win without a QB because they are exceptional on defense and along both fronts. It’s time to find our next rainmaker at QB AND start becoming exceptional elsewhere. There was exceptional all over the field and sidelines when we were winning big. Where is it now?

    • A superstar at QB will cure a lot of problems. I’d love that too. I have no idea if Darmold or Browne can fill that bill. But in the meantime, we have problems all over the field and ion the coaching staff which led to six losses last season – some totally humiliating.

      USC needs some brains in the program to fix this stuff. So far, Helton hasn’t shown anything other than the players like him. Whoopee. Hope he gets smart fast, or it’ll be three and out and maybe the next AD will finally bite the bit and realize what it takes to be like the other really good programs today.

      • Every day that has gone by since Helton was named I’ve become more uncomfortable. I really wonder where Pat Haden’s comfort level is right now. You really feel like you needed a strong personality to come in and take the program in hand, but it seems we have warm and fuzzy. I can’t point to anything that has happened since the hire that has inspired confidence other than the fact that we get a new QB.

        The question has been asked as to whether we’re a comeback team under Helton. One thing is for sure, we certainly are a fall behind team.

    • Exceptional has been sitting reading their press clippings instead of working to learn to get better.

      • Yeah. There’s no real bootstraps hunger here anymore. Does warm and fuzzy get you that? I look at Bama players and they strike me (rightly or wrongly) as poor and simple people and they play like it. I think ‘SC became too cosmopolitan at some point and we lost that South Central edge. I think we’ve been too soft at the top and it has permeated the entire football program.

  7. USC needs a playmaker at QB. A black QB is about to win for the 4th time in 5 years. USC doesn’t even recruit African American qbs. The rare times they do, they transfer or get moved to another position. Rodney Pete was 30 years ago.

    • I don’t know how you pick against Bama, but the mobile QB is the only thing that has worked against them.

        • Or to put it another way, steveg, don’t recruit light defensive players just to try to stop the one or two true dual threats you’ll face all season (with no guarantee it can be done) —just get your own running quarterback and make everybody have to deal with him.

    • You aren’t saying USC is racist I know. USC has had the problem of wanting a pocket passer for their USC offense. It doesn’t seem there were black pocket passers that fit their needs.

        • What….give him 200K? Nah…he’s lucky to be living in the weather we have here and he’ll tell anyone that when he gets back to Madison-WI.

    • Wouldnt doubt it – Clay Helton said straight up and set it up by saying “that’s the best defense in the nation” after the game.

      • Not saying we’ll get him because rumor is his family loves Wisconsin, but i hope Helton’s all in on him.

    • I hope the job has been offered him, and not contingent concerning Pendergrass. I hope Aranda’s offer is plus bonus , plus incentives and over the $000000.Just get this Guy.!!!

      • I hate to be a downer, but I’ll believe it when I see it. But after the Holiday Bowl I’m convinced he can improve our defense hugely.

        • That’s one of the problems with SC now.

          In the past, pre-sanctions, we always had an expectation of good. Great things usually happened to USC football. We ruled the Pac and steamrolled the nation in the process. We beat both ND and ucla every year like little pissants.

          Now, there’s always doubt. We don’t usually close the deal now. No cigar. Our people at the top aren’t great leaders and our teams are softer and entitled.

          Wish we would get our mojo back. Like you, I’ll believe it when I see it. Until then, I figure we’ll settle for something less. It’s the Haden way.

          • Yeah there is a real sense of ‘what next’ that prevails Heritage Hall and it ain’t goin’ away until we have a solid season.

            Sep. 2016 can’t get here soon enough

          • I agree. We can’t close deals and we’re soft. IF we can land Aranda…I think we will need a guy like Tim McDonald or even Mark Carrier who has said he’d like to be apart of the staff to help bring along our secondary. That being said, it’s just a pipe dream at the moment.

          • Ya, that would be a perfect world. I really don’t think USC is up to making waves like that. Sis Boom Blah.

          • !3 – 9 Stinkman. SUCC really steamrolled in that game – ROLLED OVER is more accurate. But hey, accuracy doesn’t count for much in a furious, Bozo U Stinkman proclamation.

            Bye bye sure BCS invitation. Little Petey Pom-Pom was speechless.

          • Only a drunk like Just Squats would be excited about winning one game in 13 years against USC. That your 7-6 year when FSU put up 44 on you in the Emerald Bowl. Drink On alky. There’s always a bar stool for you at the Congo Mud Wrestling Room.

  10. Q/B won’t matter if practices do not get serious compared to this and last year.If you do not know what I am stating ,there is also no hope for you …

  11. Update – According to my NCAA College Football simulator, SC dominates with Jalen Greene or Sam Darnold at QB

    They lose 5, 6 games with Cody, pure and simple

  12. A little too late, Scott. For three years, fans and reporters, especially Dan Weber, have defended Cody. But his flaws are clear. He just cannot make the passes over 15 yards unless it is an over the shoulder fade. It is why Kiffin gave refused to name Kessler the clear cut starter. he was forced to because Wittek, despite the tools, just could not play the position at the Division I level. Kessler wasted Marquise Lee’s last season because he could not throw over the top. Kessler looked good last year because Sark’s scheme was simple — get one of the four receivers open in space. It inflated his numbers. Notm only is Cody the worst of the USC starting QBs since Carson Palmer, he isn’t even at their level. The only other Pac-12 team I could see Kessler starting for is Utah.

  13. The most Cody Kessler stat of all time:

    From Reign of Troy, “On 3rd & 7 to 9 yards, Cody Kessler completed 71.4% of 28 passes. USC got first downs just 11 of those attempts (39.3%)”

    • Last year teams were concerned about USCs speed on the perimeter (Agholor, Farmer, JuJu), so they paled off, and Kessler completed a lot of 5 to 10 yard passes with the receivers turned to 20+ gains.

      This year, without Nelson and Farmer, with JuJu as the only perimeter threats and a lot of slot type recivers, terams played up on JuJu and dared Kessler to go over the top.

      He could not.

  15. Western KY offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach Tyson Helton is joining the staff of his brother, USC coach Clay Helton, likely as running backs coach, according to a source.

    This past season was Tyson Helton’s second in his positions
    at Western Kentucky, which had a 12–2 record this year under rising star
    coach Jeff Brohm, including a 45–35 win over South Florida
    in the Miami Beach Bowl. Helton was instrumental in a Hilltoppers
    offense that is fourth in the FBS this season in scoring (44.3 points
    per game) and ninth in yards per game (526.4) behind departing star
    sixth-year quarterback Brandon Doughty.

    Prior to Western Kentucky, Helton was Cincinnati’s tight ends and special teams coordinator for a season and an assistant at UAB from 2007–12. He got his start with the Blazers as quarterbacks coach under then-coach Neil Callaway, who is expected to be USC’s new offensive line coach.
    Helton held that position for five years before moving to running backs
    coach under Callaway’s successor, Garrick McGee, in ’12.

      • Stanford owns the entire PAC12 right now. SC 2-6 since ’09, and UCLA 0-8. That’s like saying SC owns UCLA, when in fact the series is dead even at 17-17-1 the past 35 years.

        • I love how you like to pretend WW II never happened. Well, I wasn’t born then, but it’s just as important as anything going on now.

          The truth of the matter is, USC does own ucla, 40-21. And since 2000, we own you really big at 12-4. You’ve really fallen off the map since the days of Cade McNown and Bob Toledo, and you know it. The McNown team that lost to Miami was the last time you were ever really good.

          And why just go to 35 arbitrary years back? I choose since 1962 (53 years ago), when I started following USC. That’s what’s important to me. Since then, USC owns the little gutties 31-21 and USC has also won 6 national titles during that time and ucla has predictably won 0.

          And Stanford currently owns the Pac-12 (even though we beat them 2 out of the last 3), but they never win it all like USC does.

          USC’s a national player that can win it all and has 11 times. Stanford, with the second most Rose Bowl wins behind USC’s monstrous 24, is a national player that can’t win it all. ucla’s strictly a regional player that can’t even win a conference championship.

          • Guilty as charged: I just love getting you riled up, Jack, and reading your history lessons on USC football. Looking forward to a spirited year of good-hearted repartee in 2016! Happy New Year.

          • Come on Encinitas, can’t you do better than that?

            Nobody’s riled up on this nice last college football Saturday after a cool but expensive brunch on the water.

            I know you little gutties can’t stand hearing about your substandard past, but what choice do you have?

            Palman Qui Meruit Ferat. If you had earned more, you’d have it. Sorry your history is so second tier. You can always dream. Just be grateful I didn’t stick you in tier 3. It was kind of a close call.

            Close you eyes now and don’t read this: USC – 24 Rose Bowl wins; ucla – 5. Ugh.

            And good luck in 2016 to you as well. This could be the start of a beautiful friendship. I used to practice law with bruins. You aren’t all bad.

          • Lux matis, Jack. And that light points to the winningest college athletic program in the history of western civilization. So as you Trojans like to say: Let him who has earned it bear the reward. No pun intended, but we Bruins have–113 times. But don’t worry, SC is second to UCLA.

          • You need to do your homework Encinitas. In men’s team sports you trail USC in NCAA championships by a wide margin. You also trail USC by a huge margin in NCAA individual men’s championships. Look it up, though I’m sure you already know this. Most of us are men here dude. Maybe you were looking for a ladies board.

            And in college football, which is what this board is about 95% of the time, the little gutties have gone from Bridesmaid U to Corn Meal U. You’re heading back down, even though you’ve never been alone at the top, ever.

            As far as the whole of western civilization goes, that must not include the Pac-12 or the Pac-10, where you can’t even win a simple football conference championship. Nice try.

          • Now we are in a spitting contest, Jack. You know as well as I do that UCLA is the finest athletic university in the nation, with the most national championships. If you want to pretend that women don’t count, I’m sure your wife or significant other would love to have that discussion with you. I don’t have a dog in that fight, my friend. I’ll just stick with the Latin: fiat lux et palman qui meruit ferat.

            On another front: Darnold or Browne? Also, who takes over as the heart of the D with Cravens’ departure?

          • Wrong. So you insist on counting women. And yes, individual titles count too unless you think sports like track & field, golf, tennis, gymnastics and swimming don’t matter.

            USC has 489 combined team and individual (men’s and women’s) titles.

            ucla has only 379. Stanford actually leads the country with 584 and Texas is 3rd with 381.

            Browne will probably beat out Darnold because I think Helton likes drop-backers and he probably doesn’t have the guts to make Browne ride the bench again.

            I don’t know who we look to as the leader of the D. Probably Cameron Smith, not the most physically gifted, but maybe the best football player. If they switched Iman Marshall to safety, I’d think about him too.

            Who will Mora fire from your staff?

            Is it true he’s not getting along with your admin and they are at odds?

            Who will replace Mora if he leaves?

          • Mora has vision; he’s a producer. Guerrero wouldn’t know vision if it hit him in the face. He’s an administrator. Mora has more respect within the university than his boss. So, male ego slips into the picture and DG feels threatened. I don’t think either man will let it come to a boil, but there it is. I’m split on going after another OC. Though Mazzone is unimaginative, it’s a lot of work to bring in a new OC who will then need to install a new system, or adapt to what Mora wants. Bradley is capable, but we lack strength and size on D. Really need to land an anchoring LB like Juarez and some tough, strong DLs.

            Mora wants a P12 championship and an invite to the playoff, and will stay to get it–or go down trying. He is currently un-fireable, especially coming off a dozens years of inexcusable mediocrity within the program. He knows he has a shot at something great with Rosen behind center–he’s the best QB (arguably) in the history of UCLA football. Strength coach could be gone–somebody may need to take the fall for the mind-numbing number of injuries.

            My Manhattan Beach friends say the Mora-to-the-NFL talk is baseless.

          • We’ve all got our problems. Sounds like not much will be changing for you guys and that you’re gonna have to depend on new talent to upgrade and get bigger quicker. I agree on Rosen, but if you don’t fix your OL problems, he’ll be marginalized severely. Were I you I would want Bradley gone. Bend baby.

            I don’t think either L.A. team will be much next season and both are at least two years away from a real shot at anything. And that assumes they recruit great.

    • yea……you only beat us TWICE this year….You put up 41 POINTS each time…..dare you to do it again….

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