Does it matter if a team is 10-2 that it lacks discipline? Chuma Edoga lost his cool after his personal foul for a late hit. Joseph Lewis appeared to be upset with a coach after he come to the sideline following his personal foul on a kickoff. And USC had another sideline warning because it can’t keep its players and coaches off the field or white part of the sideline.
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And organizational issues (# of players on the field), could be consolidated into lack of accountability.
Let’s just say that John McKay would’ve benched some guys until they saw the light. And so would’ve John Robinson. Heck, so would’ve Larry Smith.
Larry Smith was lax, he was letting the players wear black do rags under their helmets, the rich alums complained, the rags went bye bye
Now that you mention it, I seem to remember something about that —-but Larry Smith was Captain Bligh compared to Clay Helton.
I would have loved to see CH handle Todd Marinovich. Have absolutely no idea how that would have worked out.
No idea? Can I help? It would go something like this —“You only THINK you saw Todd push me on the sideline —if he really shoved me, I’d be dead —I love Todd, he’s my hero.”
Classic!!!!
I owe it all to my memory of Helton’s response to past disciplinary problems, jojo.
#PastIsPreludeToFuture
Jack, the last thing you do with people from a management perspective is argue with them. You set the rules/regulations and expectations and you stick to them. If someone does not abide by those then you sit themdown/fine them/demote them, until their ready to do things your way. Actions will always speak louder than words.
Oh, goodness, I just had a nightmare!
You can throw in the red tights as well. Looks like crap. This all goes back to the tenor of the program and their lack of attention to detail. Does Bama do this? Nope.
Mora didn’t care that his players got personal fouls one after another, wouldn’t be surprised if he promoted it.
Gomer is a huggy kinda guy, he isn’t going to get in their face like a Saben or a Meyer, and he’s not going to win NC’s either.
Gomer was hired ” because the players like him “
That’s correct, Cortez. Clay Helton WAS hired because the players like him. Win/loss-wise it seems to be working out pretty well.
Please continue this conversation after Sam Darnold leaves.
I used to think the same thing: Helton is toast when Sam leaves. But, looking back over this year— with Sam’s very average 2 touchdowns a game, one interception a game and one fumble a game —-I’m not so sure the drop off is going to be as bad as I originally thought —especially if Jack Sears turns out to be a little above average.
I think you are correct. Sam has crazy potential. He does things that most cannot. He also has been horribly inconsistent. I still want Sam with the ball above all others with the game on the line. But if he leaves I do not think it will be the end of the world. One thing I am sure will improve is the read option, because it is almost never an option. Sam keeps one out of every 50, mostly at goal line. I also think shots downfield will improve as Sam is not great at it. Turnovers can’t be worse, so maybe that will improve as well. But when the chips are down it will be scary without Sam. He makes things happen late in games.
You nailed it, Chris. And the converse is —without Sam’s interceptions, fumbles, over throws and occasional early game jitters —-USC may be winning games differently next year. We may not need Sam or someone like Sam to push it into a different gear at the end.
Or losing games he used to save.
So there you have it. A different QB may create enough scoring that there is nothing scary late in the game. If the guy can complete 60%, run the rpo, read the defense, that is all they need. Sam is so exciting, but Sam is inconsistent. Either Fink or Sears has the ability to get the job done. With Carr and Ware at RB, all they need is a line that can move people out of the way.
Wasn’t the end of the world when Carson left, was it.
Take away Sam and Rojo and Gomer will be in huge trouble
Yes, if no one replaces them. Teams without quarterbacks or tailbacks are at a disadvantage.
Take away the best 2 players on offense of (insert team) and (insert coach) will be in huge trouble.
It sure seems that way to me, Hector. Coaches should be allowed to rely on their best players to win games, no? Isn’t that why they evaluate and recruit them?
Could have sworn we just got a freshman running back some people think is ok, no.
Sans ND, Darnold wills the team to win with his competitiveness more than his skills. He refuses to lose and carries the team. A player like that doesn’t happen every year, more like every decade. Adoree Jackson athleticism is at the same level of Darnold competitivness. It can carry college team
I agree —Sam’s skills and killer instinct are off the chart. They used to say the following about Frank Sinatra —-every time he does something grand, he turns around and does something inexplicable which cancels it out.
Sam’s results are on the plus side of the equation —but a steady quarterback who can take off without fumbling the ball, and get the ball to Vaughns, Pittman and Imatorbhebhe on a regular basis might garner the same results as Sam without all the last minute heroics.
What is your love affair with Sears about. Should Fink transfer?
I don’t know when my affair with Sears started. I just know that it’s real and very precious —–and I think he feels the same way.
Thanks for asking.
I disagree. Sam has an uncanny knack for making the most of a Swiss Cheese OL.
One thing to consider, gt —–defenses are putting everybody on the line to stop our run. And they’re daring Sam to pass. Usually that happens with freshman quarterbacks.
I think Sam is real good —but Pac 12 defensive coordinators don’t seem to.
Saban’s record after 2 years as HC of his 1st Power 5 program was 12-11. It took him 7 yeas to win 10 games in a season.
and also because Max wanted a vanilla, non controversial guy that was not going to say poop if he had a mouth full.
USC definitely needs more discipline across the board. I like CH and hope he makes it. Players seem to like him and they want to play hard for him. But that’s not enough.
If he doesn’t get a handle on USC’s blatant and pervasive discipline problems, he’ll never make it long term, which probably means not long past the Darnold era.
Heck, if Darnold had more of a disciplinary hand on him, his game would be better right now.
USC’s sloppy play and lack of discipline is on display for all to see every week. Hopefully Helton gets a handle on this.
It is not in his nature–from what we see–but a few well timed F BOMBSand come to Jesus rant followed by a big disciplinary hammer would go a long way in driving home a much needed message.
discipline is not about anger. it is about structure and mental toughness.
Valid point. But sometimes when the quiet voice is raised the departure from the norm can have an impact. My dad was very quiet and reserved; but when he did speak we all listened.. And maybe, just maybe continued bad behavior needs to result in stronger consequences.
True.
It good to see we are making progress each week.
ucla hasn’t made any progress little gutty. You make a wrong move here and your no-bowl ucla seasons will just continue to pile up.
Think good and hard as to why USC has a 10-2 record, it’s because of the weak teams they play, and nobody plays defense in the PAC 12 . And remember, the Trojans have much more talent than anybody else they’ve played . But things are going to change with the addition of a few new coaches In the conference, and when Sam Darnold leaves for the nfl .
Fred, following Game Two, USC never had personnel advantage over Texas, Wash St, Utah, ND, ASU, Arizona, or even UCLA. During the UCLA game, Toa, our left tackle, left the game early in the 3rd quarter due to injury. He was replaced by newcomer #63 Hensley. Before the end of the 3rd quarter, an injured Toa returns, Hensley moves to Left Guard, replacing an injured Chris Brown who never returned. Couldn’t disagree more Fred. Hope you and 97% of the others cut the pity. it’s way past time. FIGHT ON !!!
Oh BS. Lay off the bong
There is only a few really strong teams in CFB this year.
Fred, your disdain for the Pac12 is well known. IMO , it is a bit overblown. The PAC12 from top to bottom is stronger than the SEC top to bottom. The SEC is propped up by its top 3 –maybe 4 but the rest is terrible. Same can be said for the ACC & Big10. Problem is the PAC 12 does not have a dominant team in its top 3 or 4. None of the PAC12 top teams would dominate the SEC or ACC, but AL or Clemson sure would dominate the PAC12. Plus the PAC12 has much better QB play than any of the other conferences. QB play definitely impacts defensive success. I do not disagree that USC doesn’t play physically enough and they should be slobber knocking each and every PAC12 opponent. I am not so sure the level of coaching talent is as bad as you think. But I do know that most of the talking heads nationally state categorically that that the level of coaching in the SEC has fallen off in the past 3-4 years———as has its QB play.
Stronger? We struggled with the crummy ruins, Utah and CO.
Yawn
Coach Helton and his Staff have just completed an Wonderfully Successful 2017 regular season that should draw enthusiastic complements from the USC Administration and all USC Alums. The one game of the season that told the story was Game Two against a rock solid Stanford team. Unlike last year, the USC coaches had the team fully prepared to go undefeated and play for the NCAA Championship. You see, our Game Two was The Last Game USC played without injury, without crippling injuries. As all of you can remember, if you really try, USC and the Coaches took Stanford apart play by play for FOUR QUARTERS, Pete Carroll style. To be PAC12 Southern Division Champs following 10 games “short of experienced players” is INCREDIBLE. Because I do not have my head and heart in The Dark Place, I am more proud then ever to call myself a University of Southern California Alum, Class of 69 !!!
You’re delusional . . . .
What does that make you ?
If Coach Helton [and a fresher, better rested Trojan team] demolish their next two opponents —both of which will be quality teams —-I will be the first to pay “enthusiastic compliments”, schammer47.
#AndIExpectThemToDoJustThat,ByTheWay
SC will have an advantage next game with a bye and facing a team coming off a touch game/short week. I would expect a solid performance, especially if some veterans come back (Gustin). Still, a lot of young guys who lack maturity and need development.
We should definitely have the upper hand in the CG game —on November 25th both Washington State (vs Washington at Seattle) and Stanford (vs Notre Dame) will be fighting for their lives. And we’ll be fresh. Welcome to what USC faced all season, boys!
Getting refreshed is all good. But we still need a lot of work (practice) If They do not practice hard in the bye they will be even softer for the game
I’m hoping Helton knows that he has to balance healing with preparation —–otherwise we’ll have a bunch of unprepared, healthy players [like we did in the Holiday Bowl against Wisconsin—when Helton made the decision to give everybody “extra rest”].
Or the other team has the advantage in staying in playing shape while SC players lay around Thanksgiving and lose their edge.
But they didn’t demolish mighty Western Michigan rested up.
Yeah —that occurred to me, too, gt……
gotroy22, Mr 22, I thought I you knew better then that. Your post is WEAK and that concerns me because wise thinkers don’t post weakness. The first game of the year means very little. It is the game when the players improve the most. Western Michigan finished 13-0 in 2016 and fielded a completely new coaching staff with many new players. Most of the time, 22, and you should know this by now, First Games are a mess, a time of evaluation more than anything. But overall, gotroy22, I agree with 90% of your posts. Happy Thanksgiving !!!
They didn’t go 13-0 this year. But regardless Happy Thanksgiving to you!
We were disappointed in the lack of effort in the ruin game. There’s no way SC’s offense should be held under 30 by those tomato cans.
You smoke a lot of hash don’t you ?
IF that’s true, you need to ask some follow up questions, Cortez. (1) Where is he getting it and (2) how much is an ounce?
Do your homework.
Maybe a season with a bye after Texas…what could of been
JBK, So true. We were riddled with injuries after the Texas game. Without a bye week, we never recovered.
But we were underachieving with a full line up just as we under-performed against the defenseless ruins last Saturday night.
Exceptionally well stated.
The key year for Helton will be next year. He has to be better than his first two years. He will not be allowed to let the team slide because it never gets better after that. If I were him I would get the best Assistant Coaches that USC will pay for and that should handle the discipline issues.
He’s the good cop, he needs a new assistant to be the bad cop
But will the players run to Helton for sympathy when the bad cop kicks butt? And will Helton be temperamentally unable not to undercut the bad cop?
We don’t know what we don’t know about what goes on in meetings away from the media. They may not have the luxury to sit the immature talent. Would you rather have wins or punish the hot heads?
Punish hot heads for future wins.
USC has recently gone through having prima donas on the team. I thought this year there wouldn’t be that problem. Chuma has a long long way to go to be a prima dona. Him and Jack Jones both need to have their butts put in their place. Perhaps a team meeting on the topic with no coaches would be appropriate. It seemed to help a lot last season.
That may not actually be the choice, GT. Woody Hayes once said you play BETTER as a team without the distraction of prima donna stars. I don’t totally agree with that —- but you get the point. If Chuma had been pulled for his grinning unnecessary roughness penalties a while back, it might have sent a message to the team.
More than just one new asst. Two minimum, hopefully three IMO. That’s my Christmas wish list.
ucla’s gonna have as many as 10 new coaches and there’s gonna be a drastic difference across town. They already have good players.
Helton needs to stay ahead of the curve and get down to business. Injuries are one thing but ridiculous sloppiness and penalties is another.
Big mouth JJ has regressed as a player and it’s not because he got hurt. Grabby looks no better than last year when he was committing PI penalties at break neck speed.
Again, hope your right. I look at stats a lot. That’s one of the things I was assigned to when I coached. In the Wake Forest vs ND game, WF had 3-15 penalties. Its not uncommon for SC to have 10-100 yards at any given game. WF lit up the Irish defense for almost 600yards (587 to be exact). PC used to bring in Anthony Munoz when he was playing for the Bengals. Have him talk to the team and would would tell them what to expect on game day. PC used to take his teams to South Bend on Friday nite to look at the festivities for the SC game. This would give the players a good idea how big a game thisfor the Irish. Instead, CH has the team sequestered in Michigan City. Wherever that’s at. Don’t understand this coaching staff.
I didn’t know that about Helton’s ND game prep. All I do know is he coached USC to the worst ND loss, in either the Coliseum or South Bend, that I have ever seen. Then MIA threw ND around like a rag doll.
I also don’t know why Helton can’t get his team to cut down on penalties drastically. It’s like the coaches don’t even go over penalties with the team.
But at 10-2, Helton gets a lot of slack and probably deserves it. But watching USC seems like waiting for an accident to happen much of the time.
Ran into some ucla guys at the market today and we all laughed at how both teams looked so bad during stretches of last Saturday’s game. If Helton isn’t careful, he’ll come to know exactly like Mora feels to get dumped in Los Angeles.
The youth, inexperience, lack of development excuse will be gone next year. Coaching ability will show then.
Except we may have a youthful inexperienced new QB.
If Sears is unable to perform at quarterback (and I don’t mean to say if he can’t beat Stanford and Texas —-but if he plays like the “Two Max’s”, Wittick & Browne), Helton is history. It’s that simple.
You pretty sure Sears will be the starter? Fink may have a say in that decision before next fall. At least I hope he does.
Matt Fink is King of the LA River!
so you allow the head coach to stay and fire his assistants? that would be horrible
Anyone have any Wolf quotes from the PC era where the teams were always top 10 in most penalty yards?
Don’t play coy, Golllllly Noooooiiddddd., you have them all after your decade of stalking the Blogger.
Lmao only a matter of time you got back on my sack, even more hilarious knowing you think I’m someone else. Even saw that you thought another user was the same person last week, sorry your boyfriend must’ve stopped getting printed on milk cartons awhile ago.
Gollllyyy Noiiidddd, you have had many handles over your years of stalking the Blogger including John Wooden, Nemesis, The One The Only and your two recently outed sock puppets.
Wow you really are looking hard for your long lost loverboy. Sorry I can’t help you out, good luck tho
Wow you are pathetic Golllly Nooooiddd. Looks like you are too lazy to fire up some new sock puppets.
I remember after the joke preparation for that 2nd game vs Stanford for Pac 12 title a couple yrs ago followed by worse and even less practices for San Diego Holiday bowl vs Wisconsin debacle…that is where discipline/respect and team work come into fuition; and some hard nosed blocking and tackling ,actual football to win the big games.Coach promised it would never be that way again.Lots of penalties last year and this year.
Where were you last year Yale. Asleep ? The last 9 games of the 2016 season, Helton and his Trojans played with wonderful smash mouth, hard nose blocking and tackling, They played with extraordinary discipline/respect enhanced by game winning coaching adjustments. The end game result, defeating a talented and highly ranked Penn State, in where else, our Pasadena Rose Bowl Stadium. Can it get any better than that for a first year Head Coach ?
thanks for your inane remark ,having nothing to do with what I said…this team barely hangs on to win , why? PennSt game was won by the q/b and last second field goal after giving up 4-5 touchdowns in a row not smash mouth defense…we are from different eras and perspectives…period
Yale, My time at USC was 1965 to 1969, where I witnessed One National Championship, Two Heisman Trophy’s, and attended three Rose Bowl Games. Won One, Lost Two. So you are now a FOLLOWER of the 97% Imbecile Helton haters on this Blog. You have obviously become an advocate of start to finish overpowering monster blowouts of ALL competition. The H@ll with the win over the #1 Bruins in 1967. The H@ll with Pete Carroll’s nip and tuck win over Fresno State. Yale, you used to be able to think on your own. I hope common sense returns to you very soon.
ditto …you still carry on in ignorance and don’t answer what I stated…I go back to 1951 SC games watching most home games, RoseBowls, so what? it does not change anything…you will play no better than you practice…shorts on the goal line work for you in practice and games??? real coaches coach real practices… just cross my name of your list …thanks
It seems everyone is so worried what will happen if Sam leaves. I think USC has been in that situation before. Somehow, the team stepped up. After Sam leaves there will be a different look no doubt, but that doesn’t mean it has to be bad. I to hate to see Sam leave, but we all have to accept it and the staff has to work with what they have to develop a new look.
If we win the Pac 12 title and beat Ohio State in bowl game will Scott say this team has improved? No way, he’ll say why didn’t the team play like this all year.
Clay needs to find his inner Bobby Knight…..
The game is full of emotion. Can we leave it at that? This is mere speculation.
C’mon…..
These are minor problems that can be fixed. It’s guys amped to play and got a little too emotional. It’s not like that stole something or sexually assaulted someone. Oh wait, someone said stealing in a foreign country is no big deal.