Carroll Vs. Chow
Here's a little history lesson on Norm Chow's departure from USC and his falling out with Pete Carroll.
Relations between Pete Carroll and Norm Chow deteriorated over time. Carroll resented how Chow always got credited with the success of the offense and quarterbacks winning the Heisman Trophy. He worried recruits would think the offense would fall apart if Chow ever left.
On top of this, Lane Kiffin and Chow barely spoke and had at best a strained and sometimes hostile relationship. Remember the argument during the 2004 Orange Bowl practices in Florida?
Chow resented the way Carroll increasingly meddled with the offense. Many times, Carroll said, ``This isn't the BYU offense'' or said he intervened midway through the 2001 season to ``fix'' the offense.
Things reached a head in January of 2005. Carroll, Kiffin and Steve Sarkisian met in Mobile, Ala., at the Senior Bowl and talked about a plan to bring Sarkisian back from the Raiders, where he was an assistant and kick Chow into the job of assistant head coach.
They also discussed removing playcalling duties from Chow.
Chow told friends recently he was "hurt" and "upset" and thought he was being forced out.
"I think they wouldn't mind if (Chow) left," said an associate of Carroll and Chow. "I think it's about ego and maybe they are tired of Norm. They don't need him anymore."
Now, to be fair, Chow could also be aloof and paranoid at times and his quiet demeanor is not the type of personality Carroll seems to prefer on his coaching staff.
With all of this going on, Chow was offered the Titans job. After he took the job, some other things happened between involving Chow and Kiffin, but I'll go into them another time. Meanwhile Chow no longer speaks to Sarkisian, feeling he was betrayed by his former protege.
I have no information regarding what Mr. Wolf has written. But I do know that from listening to Norm give radio interviews that he is a soft-spoken, serious type fellow. He apparently did not interview well, being more of an introvert than is recommended for a head coaching job, and there might be some racial sensitivity involved. Carroll and "his kind," however, are genuine extroverts, and so we can see how the personalities might not have meshed well. And when Norm was seemingly receiving as much credit for SC's rise as was Carroll, well, you can see where Pete might have been a bit jealous.
That said, how much better is Norm than Sarkisian? -- 5%, 10%? How much difference will Norm make the next two years as ucla is struggling to catch up with SC's talent? I say, ucla will continue to lose.
If this is somewhat true, Pete Carroll needs to take a lot of the blame for the bad relationship Chow and Carroll had. Pete's a great coach but he isn't perfect. Seems like Pete's ego got in the way. Chow was a great OC for USC. I don't remember fans questioning many of the plays that Chow called during his time here. When Sark and Lane took over, there were a lot of complaining about some of the calls. The offense still did pretty well because of the talent on offense USC had but some of the play calling was suspect. Chow was a lot better than Sark and Lane. UCLA's offense will probably improve but they still need to get players in there. Chow isn't a miracle worker.
Scott- Thank you for this enlightening post. It explains a lot, especially why he took the job at UCLA. I don't think it was about vengence or money. I think it had everything to do with respect and the ability to work and live at home. New Weasel said they offered Chow a multi-year contract, so if it goes well, I think this will be his last job. I also think he still would be at BYU if they had offered him the head coaching position, which he more than deserved after being there almost two decades. He was passed over, so he split, and he has been in search of the respect ever since. It appears he finally found it in Westwood. I just wish it had been at USC. Watching Chow coach is like watching a master chess player at work. He sees so clearly what most of those rah rah extroverts miss because they are running their mouths. I wish him well.
Norm may coach at UCLA, but he knew all along that an education at USC was better for his kids. This is what he told the L.A. Times:
"I enjoyed a very special time at USC. I had a son graduate from there and have another son going to school there. Hopefully I had a helping hand in how that program is going now. . . . Pete Carroll has done a terrific job. I will have the same respect I have always had for them."
After reading the Tennessean, and your remarks Scott,
"Chow told friends recently he was "hurt" and "upset" and thought he was being forced out" and "Meanwhile Chow no longer speaks to Sarkisian, feeling he was betrayed by his former protege" and "This really came out of nowhere, I didn't see it coming, I disappointed in Jeff (Fisher).
If you listen to all the media hacks, and Norm himself,it would appear that everyone is picking on "Poor Norm" and with Nueheisels revelation, that he sat down Sunday in Norm's front room and recruited him just like any other player, did he hold Norm's hand while offering him the job? Sounds to me as though those three, Nueheisel,Chow and Walker were sitting 'round the table licking their respective 'CHOPS' and discussing how Pete disrespected them both and how they could get back at him.
ParagonSC brought up the point, on Conquest Chronicles, he hoped this was not a 'vengeance hire', while it may not be, I'm more than a little convinced it is a "GRUDGE HIRE"
While most on the BN blog are euphoric with this news, they shouldn't take this to mean Pete and Crew are going March onto UCLA's campus and surrender. Quite the contrary, from here on out, it's no longer a rivalry, it's WAR!
Re: Chow vs. Kiffin. I have never met Coach Chow, but he seems like a serious hard working guy. Kiffin i met once and my impression of him can be told in one word....PUNK!. I am still amazed the Coach Carroll thought that kidfin could replace Coach Chow, but as already stated I think ego's were involved.
Go Trojans!!! 72-63.... all the bruins at work were saying wait until March! HA, whining little bitches
I wouldn't discount the fact that Pete is going to treat matching up with Norm as seriously as any bowl game or big non conf game we've had. Pete does love a challenge and usually rises to it. So let's see how this plays out.
I have to believe that Pete made a mistake hitching his wagon to Lane Kiffin. If Norm was still around calling plays, SC would have another BCS Title at the least and possibly 3 at the most. I think his experience and feel would have probably got us over the hump against Texas, UCLA, and Stanford. I also think the young receivers would be a lot better at this point under Norm's tutelage.
Oh well, it's just speculation at this point and it's hard to argue with Pete's success as the Trojans' HC. Although, it wouldn't have bothered me to become the Patriots' of college football for a few years. Anyway, enough knit-picking and here's hoping to continued domination of the Bruins from here on out.
Pete Carroll has never won a National Title without Norm Chow.....and probably never will. If being USC's offense and not BYU's means scoring under 20 points a game from time to time with this much talent, with 24 being a good game, then send me to the Mountain West. The last 2 years reminds me of the 1979 team. 2 Heisman trophy running backs and 4 future NFL All-Pro offensive lineman, plus an All American QB....scoring only 17 against both Ohio State & LSU that year. I believe a guy named Paul Hackett was involved with that offense. At the college level, coaching is everything. Those who don't remember history are condemned to repeat it.
SURPRISE-------WE HAVE A FINE POST BY SW, AND NOTHING BUT INTELLIGENT COMMENTS------WHAT IS THIS BOARD COMING TO???
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I CAN INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY MOST OF WHAT SW SAID.
RE CHOW GOING TO UCLA---CHOW IS ASIAN, AND I AM MARRIED TO AN ASIAN[FILIPINO]---FACE IS SO IMPORTANT
NO WAY NORM GOES OUT BEING FIRED---IT'S ALL ABOUT RESPECT, HOW HE WILL BE REMEMBERED,ETC.--CHOW GETS NOTHING IN THE WAY OF MONEY BY WORKING FOR UCLA FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS.
RE THE UCLA FOOTBALL TEAM, THEY NEED AT LEAST TWO GOOD RECRUITING CLASSES IN A ROW, AND PROBABLY THREE, BEFORE NORM CAN DO HIS THING.
RICKS' EGO IS AT LEAST AS BIG AS PC'S, SO LET THE FIREWORKS BEGIN--IT WILL BE INTERESTING--BUT FAR TOO SOON TO WORRY, MY FELLOW TROJANS!
You know, Norm Chow taking the 'Cal Jr.' job probably means Pete Carroll will not leave SC, at least not anytime soon. Otherwise, people would say Pete was afraid to go up against Norm. Thank you 'little bears' for taking Norm.
SC has Pete Carroll for keeps now. How could Pete leave?-- People would say he was a coward, afraid to go up against Norm. ucla has just done SC one great favor.
If Norm thought Pete had a big ego, wait until he gets a load of Slick Ricky New Weasel's way of doing business! Ricky has no track record, either, to fall back on in any disagreements with Chow - he has no National Championships to recite like Pete has with USC! Also, New Weasel has a knack for "bending" the rules - what will Norm say when he finds out his boss is a cheater? I doubt Chow is the kind of person to go along with that. Lastly, what will New Weasel say to Norm the first time Chow tells him to "shove" recruiting - Norm is famous for hating to recruit and isn't the slickest talker out there. This is just a disaster waiting to happen again in Westwood ... nice going, gutless little bRUINS!