Reasons For Offensive Decline
I think three reasons can trace USC's decline in scoring in Pac-10 games from 2002-05 to 2006-08.
1. Norm Chow. 2. Reggie Bush. 3. The decrease in takeaways.
Here's some stats from the Morning Buzz:
USC's takeaways decreased the past four seasons. The Trojans averaged 38 per year in Carroll's first five seasons. But in the next three seasons (2006-08), USC averaged only 26.
USC's offense scored 30 or more points in 27 of 32 Pac-10 games between 2002-05 but did it only 11 of 31 times from 2006-09.
Silly me, here I was thinking that Norm Chow was gone after the 2004 season. As it turns out, he was still there.
Wouldn't a more-honest way to measure the offense's production (If, as obvious, you believe Norm For Sale was the key ingredient) be to use the Chow years and post-Chow years? Which is to say 2001-2004 and 2005-2009?
Offensive production spiked way up right after Chow left is the way I remember it (Bush was still there). Or how about Chow's first year? Not much happening until PC switched to power running with Sunny Byrd. By the way, now that Chow is paired with another offensive genius over at UCLA, how's that offense going?
NC was not there 2005 but his coached players were. The 2005 offense was CF best ever and it was developed by NC. After several games ML went to PC and asked to have a return to NC passing game. PC did and the offense become better until a stupid call on 4th and two.
Several reasons for decrease in turnovers.
1. during prior era PC was DC
2. Groots was a turnover machine
3. The prior era players were classic tacklers who had better technique than NFL teams.
4. the current from day arrived were more into highlight hits then classic wrap-ups. Current d-backs like idea of separating man from ball. old era liked going after ball
But Chelsea, then Gargadouche couldn't cherry pick his stats as well.
Another shocking but true Pete Carroll statistic: his winning percentage is .000 in games in which the other team scores more points.
He is clearly a pitiful football coach.
Ah, Norm Chow is to explain why UCLA's offense is exploding with points every Saturday.
The offense looked pretty damn good the last few games. It's the defense I'm worried about this week against Oregon.
There is pretty much one reason, talent. You have chosen to take the greatest collection of offensive talent SC, or just about any other school, has put together in the modern era, then compare it to a really good collection of talent and then wonder why it isn't the same thing.
Palmer & Leinart were better than Booty & Sanchez. Both were 5th year seniors, won Heismans and are statistically the best QB's in the school's history.
Bush & White were better than McKnight & Johnson. 3rd Heisman & I believe White holds the Pac-10 TD record. They had the best two season totals since Marcus Allen and they SPLIT TIME!
Williams, Smith & Jarrett are better than Williams, R Johnson & Turner. Jarrett is the best Receiver in school history (most catches, TD's & yards), Williams would be if he had stayed in school and Smith is 5th all-time.
Fred Davis is probably better than Byrd, but not by that much.
Kalil, Justice, Baker, Latui & Rachal are probably one of the greatest OL's in history. I believe 4 of them were 2+ year All-Americans and all were drafted by the NFL, with 3 going in the 1st round. This current batch has potential, but they still aren't close.
The insane level of talent is probably why you forgot that Chow wasn't coaching SC in '05. The SC offense around that time was like Miami defense a few years prior. Both were all-time great and will likely never be matched. I was glad I got to see them and I'm sure you're glad you get to whine about them.
Wolfie drops the Norm Chow grenade. Classic.
UCLA is struggling...but they'll be make their resurgence with another year in recruiting. Also, it won't hurt that high schoolers will be jumping off the SC bandwagon like a sinking ship once the NCAA sanctions come.
This is all offensive system and play calling. PC took more control over the offense after Norm and Kiff left, and made the offensive philosphy much more conservative. We no longer exploit mismatches very well, or inject creativity into the plan. PC is a defensive coach who should step back from the offense. Perhaps if Jeremy stays long enough, he can sway PC into becoming more innovative on offense, the way Norm Chow was.
The best thing that could happen would be for Pete AND Norm to make up and have Norm come back (and know his place...an OC, period). Norm is that little EXTRA piece that would put us over the top. Both PC and NC are too hard headed to admit it.
True, DFW, we need some consistency at the OC position as there has been a mad shuffle for the last few years. The strong talent we had with the excellent system that has been in place has enabled us to keep winning but that won't sustain itself without leadership. Perhaps Bates can commit for a few years to really but his stamp on the offense like PC and the D coaches have with the defense, and NC did when he was here.
EvilRobot, very well stated and I am also very glad that I was able to have enjoyed watching them.
It's probably a minor point, but the clock rules changed in 2008 (1 1/2 seasons ago). There are now less possessions/game, but I think overall scoring is about the same across the country. If you really wanted to compare the 2 'eras' of USC offense, it might be helpful to calculate points/possesion.
BTW, 2005 is the key year for the 'over 30' stat. USC scored over 30 in all 13 games. No other season had more than 11. If you compare 2001-2004 (Chow's years)to 2005-2008 (after Chow), you get a much different result than 2002-2005 to 2006-2008. Scott is selective in the way he presents data. In the end, the offense was more explosive earlier this decade, and most observant Trojan fans would agree. But in recent years, there's beem much more turnover in coaching staff with some younger, less experienced guys running the show. I honestly don't think it would be a good thing if Chow was still here. When he left, there was friction among the coaches, and at least that problem got solved. JMO.
Somebody has a man crush on NC and carries a picture of him in his wallet. I know its painful, but you will have to let NC go...be a big boy now and just let him go, you can do it.
pssst..PC is and always was the DC and calls the defenses since he got here
The decline is for these reasons:
1. Hiring Lame Kiffin and Steve Suckision while running off Norm Chow
2. Letting Lame Kiffin call plays
3. Letting Steve Suckisian call plays
There is no question Chow had a huge part of USCs success, despite what is going on at UCLA. Go back and watch a game from 2003 or 2004. Much better plays, play calling and adjustments. The USC offense was a machine then. There was do doubt in anyones mind USC could score at anytime from anywhere on the field. Chow had a ton to do with that, and is pretty much why he isnt at USC anymore. PC decided he will not share credit for winning he if has to take all blame for losing.
The other reason is PCs inability to close the deal in recruiting the difference maker/playmaker on offense. Reggie was that. All the WRs that the rah-rahs were calling the 'next Mike Williams' all turned out to be average or outright busts...Jarrett, Turner, Vidal, etc. Pete couldnt get Harvin, DeSean Jackson or CJ Spiller. This so called 'stable of running backs' hasnt produced much. McKnight is nothing special. Tyler is part of Petes All-Delicate team. Bradford has had one good half in four years. CJ cant get on the field and is behind those guys which, doesnt say much about him. SJ was solid at least, but now hes lost. Moody bolted and got something no one else on the USC roster has.
"All the WRs that the rah-rahs were calling the 'next Mike Williams' all turned out to be average or outright busts...Jarrett, Turner, Vidal, etc."
On what planet was Dwayne Jarrett average? USC's all time leading receiver and the Pac-10s all time leader in TD receptions. Rose Bowl MVP. I guess thats average to a jackass sourpuss.
And I agree that the loss of Chow hurt, but being able to score from anywhere on the field had nothing to do with him. That was pure Reggie Bush, a once in a lifetime talent.
USC'89...since your statement is just about as incompetant as a liberal political philosophy..wherein neither can stand up to honest debate..It's not worth reams of typing agony here to combat it. My only "repetitive" statement to you is and has never been answered..
WHO DO YOU WANT TO REPLACE PETE CARROL WITH THAT WOULD SATISFY YOU! THAT WOULD END YOUR CONSTANT WHINING AND BITCHING! also DO YOU REQUIRE 100% UNDEFEATED SEASONS? Man you must have been living in constant hell during the previous to PC seasons if in fact you were actually an alumnus!
torpedoman,
Its far easier for me to whine and complain about everything, rather than apply logic. My approach to everything is incessant caterwauling. This probably explains why no one values my opinion, but it sure gets me attention.
Scott, What I would really like Pete Carroll to answer is if his teams have been the most dominant of any college football program since his arrival (constantly averaging 20 point margin of victories), what else does he need?
I eat paint chips.
Why is 2009 in this stat?
We have played 4 Pac 10 games and scored over 30 in 2 of the 4 (almost 30 in a third). The only game we weren't close was when Aaron Corp filled in for Barkley.
the D was so good the last 3 yrs, that the O just played more conservatively
here is a really funny link about college players and halloween costumes - enjoy
http://www.offthepond.net/2009/10/fotb-presents-halloween-costumes-for-all.html