In 2012 Chivas USA appears to have come full circle, meaning they are no further ahead today in securing a decent fan base and a club identity than they were in 2005, the year they began play in MLS.

Not surprisingly then, the discussion has shifted from how can the experiment work, to what form should Chivas USA — or a second LA-based MLS team — take in the future.

Significantly, the debate is taking place without the participation so far of the MLS suits or the team’s AWOL ownership.

So I spent my Sunday afternoon with loyal Chivas USA fan group Black Army 1850, which prefers to wear black instead of red and emphasize their LA roots rather than any affiliation with Chivas Guadalajara or the team’s Mexican heritage.

The long-suffering Chivas USA fan base deserve way more than they get from this club.

Yet I found fans who have not given up on the club despite the constant missteps of a front office that rarely communicates with their paying customers.

Moreover, the group I talked to were united about what was needed, which is why the column quotes just one member of the Black Army. Other members of the group listened to the interview as it was conducted and pretty much agreed with what was said.

Read the column here and leave your thoughts in the comment section below.