Did the process of getting Bishop Amat out of the Pac-5 quietly just begin? …

You ready to play a little game of connect the dots?

With CIF saying that St. Bonaventure and Oaks Christian should be in the Catholic Athletic Association for the next re-leaguing cycle, which would start in the 2014 season, it’s getting obvious the Serra League is headed toward a facelift.

There will be an appeals process, but this is obviously the first step in getting the ball rolling.

What will happen to Bishop Amat?

Will the Lancers stay in the Serra League if Oaks Christian and St. Bonnie’s are brought in?

Will Amat be moved to some sort of new league with schools like Cathedral, St. Francis, Damien and Serra as part of a process to get the Lancers out of the PAC-5 and into a new playoff divsion?

It’s hard to say at this point. But this is something that bears watching.

We already know Damien/St. Lucy’s have been recommended to be placed in a parochial league and no longer in the Sierra (which means get ready for a Glendora return to the Sierra).

Aram’s take: According to the LA Times’ Eric Sondheimer, there will likely be a revamping of both the Mission and Serra leagues. If you’re a realistic Amat fan, like myself, then you probably think Amat needs a more realistic playoff division than the Pac-5. If you’re a traditionalist and hanging onto the past, then you probably think Amat should stay in the Pac-5 despite its recent postseason woes. Either opinion has points. So much will happen between now and the new re-leaguing proposals, but this looks like the start of a sea change. I could be wrong. There are people who tell me quietly that as long as Glenn Martinez is in charge, Amat ain’t going anywhere. Could be. Not sure that’s what’s best for the Lancers, but we’ll see. It certainly makes no sense that Amat plays in different leagues for all major sports.

  • Traditional Amat Fan

    Amat hasn’t been good in the playoffs, but they have taken down some quality opponents in the past couple of years. They’ve beaten the likes of st. bonaventure, servite, mater dei, etc. Amat will be good. You just watch Aram. Our Freshman and JV teams did excellent this year. Amat will Shine!!!

    • http://twitter.com/ChemicalAT Aram Tolegian

      I don’t doubt it. I’ve been very vocal in saying that Amat fans need to hope they hang on until this frosh class are juniors. Then you might be cooking with oil. Also need to hope the class stays in tact and doesn’t leave.

      • SGV_FOOTBALL

        Aram, a fan from the San Diego section posted this on another blog and this is how they view Southern Section Football. “99% of quality football teams in the SS play in the PAC5 and Inland… There is a huge drop off from there…” There is no way that Amat or CO will be leaving their divisions, pride is good. I know you and Fred would like to cover championships in the East SGV but just imagine if CO would not have been removed from the Southeast. They would be going for their 5th straight CIF title, I love CO but even I wouldn’t want to see that.

        I love it when Amat plays those monster teams, like LBP, Mater Dei, Servite etc. I think Amat needs to really test itself with the two of the top four inland teams and some other teams out of the southern section.

        • GP AKA Green Machine

          99% my @$$. There are plenty of quality teams it’s just you can’t play every single school every year.

        • Not Since 1995

          What the fuck does San Diego football know about CIF SS football…? These guys are a bunch of step children to the SS…! Just a bunch of south of Taco Bell bums…!

          • SGV_FOOTBALL

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG that sh!t was funny.

          • jcaz

            my my, what a potty mouth

        • WCDan

          Here we go again… 5th straight title, I think not.
          WC would have been a problem for CO in 10 and 11

    • SGV_FOOTBALL

      How many times have we had Amat fans say that their Freshman class was the best ever. They said it last year, they said it this year, and they will say it next year. Not many Sophomores make real impacts in the Pac 5. Amat needs some legit transfers now, they cant wait two years for their Frosh to develop.

      • fb101

        SGV FB, this season’s Amat frosh team went undefeated 10-0, which had not happened in quite a while.

        The standout players are young, BUT very talented. Most if not all of these players will be on Varisty for the 2013 season which will make Amat varsity kind of young, BUT by the end of the season they will be playing like veterans.

        Amat Varsity had at least 5 soph’s playing significant minutes this past season, with I believe 3 on the OL. This gives Amat a head start on the 2013 season where the REAL issue has been for them these past couple of seasons.

        Mix these 2 classes along with next season’s Sr. class, and you may see that the tide HAS turned for the Lancers in the Serra league and the playoffs.

      • Galileo

        here’s h2o again.you don’t even hold a clipboard…..how low does that put you? maybe in charge of inflating/deflating footballs?

        • SGV_FOOTBALL

          I think your talking to sgv scouting and not me???

          • Galileo

            yes, I was referring to the “guru” my bad, I apologize sincerely!

          • SGV_FOOTBALL

            Ohh the Guru. No problem just wanted to make sure who the beef was with before I opened my mouth.

    • SGV SCOUTING

      Yeah your jv team was so good, they got shutout by Alemany and Crespi… If that is your definition of good then they had a good season….

      • fb101

        SGV ‘Scouting’ getting snarky, eh. I saw your twitter post ‘congratulating’ Crespi’s JV for winning Serra league ‘title’. WOW.

        HS football at Amat is ALL about the frosh and varsity teams. JV is a place where Jr’s and soph’s bide their time to GET to varsity.

        Amat’s REALLY talented frosh players from the 2012 frosh team WILL be on 2013 Varsity team. The not so talented will play on JV and TRY to develop enough to make varsity as Jr’s.

        • SGV SCOUTING

          Sounds like we have found our next Amat head coach right here. Great to hear you found twitter.

          • Galileo

            coach h2o….what is it exactly that you do at Crespi Carmelite…that allows you to think that you know jack? you didn’t know jack at SH…..don’t be bitter about the Celts not making the playoffs!

          • fb101

            That’s ALL you got? Snarky!!!!!

        • GP AKA Green Machine

          If Amat is about Frosh and Var, they should have Several big name sophomores. St Bonnies QB will be back for 2 more years. Oaks plays Frosh a lot, Poly always has them Jserra was all soph, Where are all of the Sophomores at? Do they Transfer, do they not improve? Is BA going to bring up all of these frosh so they get that important Sophomore year on Var so their JR and SR years are stellar? How many of them are going to start and or see time? If not, then what’s the big hype about? At the majority of the Pac 5 powers, their Super talent Frosh go straight to varsity by league or start out on varsity if they are old enough. Once you get to JV, most of the good sophomores are on Varsity any way. So JV records would be different if everyone had their best 10 graders playing. Bottom Line BA’s underclassmen as a whole are not as good as the other Pac 5 schools. They are normally SR lead teams and that’s where the depth comes in. The other schools have Frosh, Soph, jr and Seniors playing and contributing. Look at Darrick Holmes jr. Started at Muir as a Frosh and got minutes in league and playoffs as a soph. That is the kind of talent BA is lacking across the board. Especially on the line.

          • PAC 5

            Amat had 4 sophs starting on varsity this year . Next year there will be more sophs starting . Camargo and Wiley will be great in years to come .

          • fb101

            Someone was paying attention! Good job……Can’t find that in-depth ‘reporting’ on MaxPreps…LOL….

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Really?

  • New York

    Aram,

    What is your determining factor for the divisions where teams should be placed? Is it the ability to make a championship run every year or every 10 years? If so, then the vast majority of the Pac-5 should not be in the Pac-5 as well as the vast majority of the Inland should not be in the Inland. As a matter of fact, it seems that many of the divisions have become 2-5 horse(s) races. That is the real issue. Why do so many teams in each division not have any semblance of a chance?

    Maybe the CIF should purge the Pac-5 of the non-league champs and teams that have not made the semis in a handful of years. They should then add (somehow) perennial winners of the Inland and maybe Western.

    Another option is to reduce the Pac-5 playoffs to three rounds with only 8 teams making it, knowing that there are Regional and State bowls that follow anyway.

    The Pac-5 is unique because that is the highes division a team can go. With the other divisions it is a different scenario. Perennial winners need to be moved up until they are in a division where it takes a really special team to make a championship run.

    For instance: Removing Monrovia and Paraclete from this year’s Mid-Valley would have given several teams a realistic shot. Removing Monrovia from last year’s Mid-Valley would have given 6-10 teams out of 16 a realistic shot. San Gabriel had their once in a decade team that put together a nice run only to get blown out in the finals.

    Maybe Charter Oak is in the right division but Corona Centennial and Vista are in the wrong divisions. Saying Charter Oak is in the wrong division suggests that Chapparal is also in the wrong division. The entire Baseline is in the wrong division judging by results of these past two years as well as those from about 6 years ago. The answer is removing the juggernauts, rather than the second round participants.

  • Lance R

    This is a good argument from both directions and Aram as much as I hate to say it I see your point. Moving Amat out of Div.1 puts them at a level that could bring home a banner but not a Div. 1 banner. To some Amat Alum and fans this is unacceptable. I agree Amat has beaten some big name teams in Mater Dei, The unthinkable wins vs. Orange Lutheran at Orange Lutheran and of course the stunner of all beating St. Bonnies at home. Are they capable in big games? on any given night right? Winning big games goes a long ways in that you are capable of being a good team and belong but here comes playoff time and you get bounced quickly. Bishop Amat draws big crowds and the Monsignor could care less (moved down a division) as long as the money is coming in come football season. You could say they have a dynamite Freshman team that went 10-0 but that hapened in 2005, in comes Verti and there goes players transferring to Los Altos and Amat had their worst football teams in 2007 2008. To move them down could help is they start winning outright again at which point the cycle will come back to move them back up. They need size on their O and D lines that resemble these Semi finals and Finals team in the Pac 5. I do not see it happening so even as Loyal as I am to Bishop Amat I think a move down would help more then it would hurt. Every year I believe in a Banner coming from our football team but that is a addiction I have but the reality is we are not going nowhere unless we get the bigger stronger players out here in and around the SGV to come to Amat and I do not see that happening.

    • fb101

      Lance R, 2005 was SEVEN seasons ago. Things ARE looking up for Amat football.

      Question: Did you see the frosh team play this season?

      • Lance R

        fb101…..It does not matter things are getting dicey with Amat. Hagerty is a good solid coach, that his coaching talent can only do so much with the talent he gets. I did see some of the freshman games and they sure look like the future stars but to what extent maybe a quarter final spot and hopefully a Semi-finals (REACHING HERE)……… but a Banner? I could see but just not in todays Pac 5 D-1 league. If Amat went out and recruited some more talent to put on top of that Freshman talent then I could see it (championship) happening at the D-1 level. This will not happen at the increase cost of tuition going up to $8000 per year for SGV Families. Kids are staying at home now and saving mom and pop the money so they can have it for college not High School. Like college, if all H.S had a tuition I could see the point of going to Amat. With free public schools and kids still getting offers from there to play college football, I just do not see most folks forking out the money for private education (errr football program) anymore especially in this economy of job loss not to mention taxes going up this year. I truly believe in the Amat education and where it takes you in life for most anyways and it is about education first……..but is it? Were talking how to hang a D1 football banner in our gym that’s been missing for some time now.

        • http://twitter.com/aramtolegian Aram Tolegian

          The linemen issue is the big hold back for all SGV teams, especially Amat. If you went around the Valley this season and tried to cherry pick FIVE linemen for Amat to win a Pac-5 title, you’d come home with MAYBE three. The two South Hills big guys and MAYBE Delp from D-Ranch with convincing that he should play tackle. And therein lies the problem … not just for Amat, but also for CO. When everybody has skill guys and the difference is line play, then it’s like bringing a knife to a gun fight. And if anybody says “but De La Salle’s lineman are all 5-10, 180″ I will ban your IP so fast it would make Ladoceur’s head spin.

          • New York

            DLS definitely gives up size to Poly, but DLS linemen come off so low, fast and syncronized it is awesome to watch. That said, they are probably mostly 225 to 250.

          • SGV_FOOTBALL

            New York your banned! LOL.

          • New York

            Coaching plays a huge roll in developing lineplay. Having a commitment to the boring stuff throughout the year goes a long way in December.

          • GP AKA Green Machine

            Yeah, I heard they do sled work for 1 hr every practice and their center snaps with two hands on the ball!! Best Line in CA.

          • New York

            That would certainly make sense. I also heard that DLS does “stance and start” drills year-round. That would really make sense. Have you ever seen their line get beat off the ball?

          • fb101

            Aram, you are 100% correct on line play.

            At Amat, 3 of the starting 5 OL will be back in 2013. So that is a START on rebuilding line play.

            Consider this: During Verti’s 2 seasons at Amat and things were looking bad football wise, families began to look at and CHOSE other options outside of Amat. Throw in a BAD economy and the lure of a free public school option and you have more factors contributing to Amat’s football linemen issue. The added burden of a baseball coach who did not want to share athletes added to the pile of obstacles Hags faced. From the 2012 class(2011 season) Nieto lured 3 of the 5 frosh starters FROM football to baseball only. 2 of those 3 would have contributed to the OL this past season.

            Now that the economy appears to be picking up, a strong frosh football class, baseball/football ‘harmony’ it appears the pieces are beginning to fall in place for Amat football to get back to being a force in PAC5 football. Will it result in a PAC5 championship, only time will tell.

          • Lance R

            Aram, I get what your saying that there is not much “in” the SGV. I did say in other posts “in” and “around” the SGV…See if a school like Alemany can gt kids to go from Pasadena to Mission Hills which is a hike and a 1/2, then Amat can surely go out and recruit some players outside the SGV. We had or maybe still have a pipeline to the CHills kids but we get mostly skilled players from there.. Donnie Maclesky came from Chino not Chino Hills and was a recruit. There are ways to get players in the Upland, Claremont, Ontario, East Los Angeles (remember Garfields lineman?) amongst other areas that produce big lineman. Amat is just not doing their homework in this area and maybe just maybe they do not operate this way and go with what enrolls there from just plain word of mouth and tradition. This is not going to get it done in the PAC5. Lets be real the games are won in the trenches when you can overpower your opponent and move the chains. Amat has the skilled players around it but it boggs down when the engine does not fire on all cylinders (no strength up front). The last few years we had players such as Seals. Maclanahan, Rio, Gaise, and now Dionza and Andrews and those men can flat out play football but there was no line to compliment this talent. Altho Christian Ordono was a beast as a lineman (my props to him). 2 tackles 2-guards and a center not to mention a big TE and your team demolishes teams. This is not happening at Amat hence the move down. If they do not get this taken care of Koa is going to be running for his life next season. Remember our line getting out hustled vs. Lakewood in a winnable second round playoff game. Rio’s injury vs. Loyola. The multi sacks Tesoro got on Rio…..It is in the line and Amat better figure it out already… Big boy football is Big boy football go out and get some big boys already. Defensive line same senario.

          • TheRealAyalaBulldogFan

            Actually they average 5’11″ and roughly 227-230 lbs. Respectable but certainly not the 300lb behemoth’s that Corona Centennial brings to the fight every Friday night.

            Sure would be nice to DLS and CC play in the Open Final this year. I think they would welcome it as well. They know CC will give them a good game as opposed to the bed wetters that showed up last year.

  • Not Since 1995

    I have been saying this for the last 10 years…! Where’s Fred…? Where’s JackA$$??? Where’s Bitch 73???

    But oh…I am an idiot and a bigot for just mentioning it. I need to be banned for speaking the truth…! Right…! OK…!

    The fact is that Bishop NoMAS is too small, too slow, and too weak to compete with the PAC 5…! That is just a FACT!!!

    Just because Joe NoMAS and Bitch73 live in 1989 doesn’t make the 2013 varsity team anymore competitive than the 2003 team or the 2012 team. Just a FACT!!!

    WESTERN DIVISION here come the Lanceritos…!

    Not In 2013 Either…

  • SGV SCOUTING

    Galieo — Hmm… maybe I’ll take South Hills off my resume when I apply for the Servite Defensive Coordinator job this week… Thanks for the heads up!!.. :)

    • Galileo

      Troy won’t give you an interview!

  • Jefe

    Amat’s not going anywhere.

  • The Truth Nothing But…

    I want to know what they’re going to do with St. Paul. That school sucks!

  • Chris Walker

    You and Fred are both idiots. Bishop Amat made the playoffs, so they aren’t good enough to win a CIF title or League. Hate to break the news to you we have lots of teams in the SGV that haven’t made the playoffs in years. I don’t see you crying about those teams. O yes that’s right, pushing those fans buttoms doesn’t help your numbers.
    Lets start being real honest here, it all about those numbers. Based on your logic Los Altos should be dropped down to the VVL way before Amat should be drop down, right? Over the last few decades the Conquerors have clearly won more CIF titles than Bishop Amat.
    Every year you and Fred start up with your Bishop Amat crap at the beginning of the year and then again at the end of the year when then make their one and out in the playoffs.
    Get a life
    Out ….

  • bummedoutlancer

    Sad to say but its about time. As a former lancer I have seen this school being slowly torn apart by the likes of Carroll and his cronies, as well as these first term parents that think they have something coming because they stick a fake A on their car. The talent is not at this school anymore because recruiting (I mean enrollment) and reaching out locally has been running on fumes and trophy cases for years now. Someone better figure this out in La Puente, before they end up like that other private school on greenleaf

  • Lancerito

    Aram and Fred,
    Looks like St. John Bosco, Mission Viejo, and Mater Dei are all on their way out of the PAC-5. They lost to the same team that AMAT to in the playoffs.

    I think they are the same team (LB Poly) that Aram and Fred said weren’t very good this year! LOL! I guess you don’t have to be that good to be the PAC-5 Champions!!! LMFAO!!!

    You guys (Aram and Fred) are real football experts!

    Maybe next year you should go watch a team before you say they are not very good.

    Oh…by the way….AMAT lost 25-40 and Mater Dei lost 17-35. That’s a HUGE difference in scores! I can’t believe how far behind AMAT is from Mater Dei too! LMFAO.

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